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Not Planned Advocating for Disagreement: Bring Back Dislike

Discussion in 'Website Feedback' started by Niervaco, May 20, 2019.

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  1. A year ago, I wouldn't have agreed with a dislike button, as I believed players could simply respond to a certain thread or post saying why exactly they didn't like that thread or post.

    And if you did agree with the thread or post, the Like button exists, so you wouldn't have to post a simple "I agree!" and move on.

    But that was a year ago.
    People can and will post "I agree!" and move on. I've seen a post that consists of just "^" and another that basically restated what the person they quoted said. That's literally what the Like button is for, to say you agree without having anything important to add on.


    This makes me not really willing to participate on these forums, due to the blatant post boosting going on.
    I'm all for forums, especially now that we're on Xenforo, but if the quality is like this, euughh... I'm no slacker either, on another Minecraft server forums I was one of the most active members, through a combination of good game discussions and minimal post boosting (staff dealt with it).

    So really, while a Dislike button would be one solution to this that I wouldn't mind, staff being much stricter on post boosting as a whole would be an even better solution.

    What I've heard is that the current definition of post boosting is 3-4 low quality posts within a short time limit. If that's correct (it may not be) that means I could get away with a lot of low quality "+1, good idea!" on basically every thread if I spread them out throughout the day, or week.
    That's not really ideal.

    I'm thinking it should be any post that doesn't offer something worthwhile to the thread.
    If you like it, say why, or even offer an idea or something for further discussion. Otherwise, why not just use the like button???
    Same for dislike, though there's no dislike button currently so you'd always have to explain why.

    While this would be much stricter, it could also mean the warning points could only be given out for repeat offenses. The first 2-3 instances would not give out any, but if it happens again within 2 weeks to a month, they'll start coming.
     
    Posted May 21, 2019,
    Last edited May 21, 2019
    Mitchy and Vocaloiid like this.
  2. I mean, we already did...
     
    Posted May 21, 2019
  3. We did, and it wasn't removed for trolling, it was removed due to an unpopular desicion chiss made and got angry about.
     
    Posted May 21, 2019
  4. I certainly haven't been around as long as a lot of player's partaking in this discussion, but I've been around long enough to witness the forums at their peak functionality and I can confirm their current state is suboptimal at best. I greatly hope that the discussions taking place here will be enough to repeal the pro-nano posting legislature put forth by network administration-- or at the very least the culture set forth by the community. Since my return to the network, specifically the forums, I've been greatly concerned about the state of the community and the players. Enclosed below are my responses to what I consider to be the most thought-out and important responses to this thread.

    I completely agree that within the last year, the culture surrounding Mineplex's forums and its underlying management has changed considerably-- and not necessarily for the better. I do my best to stay active on Mineple'x forums, but it feels as though the website has predominately shifted from a discussion platform dedicated to critical conversations pertinent to the network to a collection of ineffective, meaningless threads with no real content that are upheld by various superficial responses-- a major contributor to the post boosting issue. It's really unfortunate, and I genuinely miss the days when I could hop on the forums and read a collection of impassioned compositions posted by players that were genuinely invested in their community.

    The forums are in need of a Mineplex renaissance, for lack of a better term, and I really believe that encouraging discussion-- and discouraging commentary-- by promoting criticism may be a critical step to encourage the changes the players posting on this thread, myself included, seem to desire.

    It's hard to pinpoint exactly how this transition occurred, I'll grant, but I don't think that's the point of this conversation-- nor is it important to the outcome. I've become genuinely invested in this thread and the discussion occurring because I do worry that the quality of our forums has declined so tragically. When compared with the forums' past, the culture surrounding the website is starkly different and almost encourages the deficiencies in content the community is suffering from. In the past, players were encouraged to provide insightful feedback or well-thought-out ideas because that was the network norm; somewhere along the line, that norm was obscured, and high quantity of posts became low hanging fruit that anyone could achieve by simply plaguing the forums with a barrage of short, platonic responses. It's a real problem and I definitely agree that network administrators & leadership need to acknowledge why the community needs disagreement in order for the network to begin recouping its quality of communal content.

    If you ask me, all staff moderating forums-- from the Trainees to the Leadership-- need to be on the same page: Posts on the forums need to be relevant, insightful, consisting of actual content, and meaningful. The problem with your proposed rule is that, like @Smaland47 says, all I need to do to circumvent the rule is to strategically schedule my short and meaningless posts. I really think staff should unanimously get behind banning "+1 nice idea" and its many forms to combat frivolous and useless posts in hopes of encouraging real discussions and ideas; these posts provide no real content or information and only drown out the real discussions taking place.
     
    Posted May 21, 2019
    Vocaloiid, Ender Rivka and Jaekub like this.
  5. This is interesting, definitely wouldn't hurt.. right? If anything, could help express emotion about an idea or post without sounding rude..
    +1
     
    Posted May 21, 2019
  6. I like this idea because it gives people a say of the idea being said. It can show if it would be a good change to whatever discussion the thread is in. Having the dislike button back will encourage people to reply to more threads and say what they are thinking. That's just my opinion.

    Have a nice day,

    Notserp
     
    Posted May 28, 2019
  7. Herro!

    I talked in the discord with both @Niervaco and @Acerna about this, and I'll restate what I said there here.
    Pros:

    Allows for disagreement and player feedback
    Targets low effort posts to have them removed
    Makes an easy response instead of writing +1 or -1

    Cons:

    Disliked/unpopular community members could get slammed with undeserved dislikes, just as @Marzie said in her post
    Promotes pure disagreement rather than discussion

    Another point for this, I think one of the reasons the button was removed in the first place was so that there would be more discussion in the forums rather than pure opinions. The reason dislikes don't work on platforms like YT is because its just people hating on an idea without giving constructive criticism. This harms the community a lot and can discourage people from posting again because they're afraid of being slammed in a sea of dislikes without enough support or help to continue posts



    Those are my points, and I'm really on the fence about whether it should be added. The reason I give this a +1 is because of how many people I have seen want this to be added. In the end, I would vote for what the community wants, as my opinion/needs aren't as important as the community as a hole.
     
    Posted May 28, 2019
    Ender Rivka and oeod like this.
  8. Which is also what the like button does but for agreement...

    This could be said about the same about like buttons in how it could make someone too full of themselves. While it is true that people are usually more affected by negative items than positive, people should see that a great number of dislikes perhaps show how their thread/idea wasn't the best. If they don't want a wall of dislikes, they will learn to up the quality of their thread. Also, I don't know about you, but having a bunch of negative replies would also have the same effect as having a bunch of dislikes.
     
    Posted May 28, 2019
  9. I can see both sides to this argument. Bringing it back would allow us to feel how we felt years ago, but at the same time could bring back lots of negativity to the forms. For now, if we do not like a post, just skip it. Disliking it will not change too much, in my eyes, but at the same time could allow the players to have more power over what is going on and reacting to updates.
     
    Posted May 30, 2019
  10. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I remember around October 2018, when the new forums had just been released, the forums was a very toxic place to be. You couldn't present a single idea without it being slammed with no constructive criticism by some members of the community. Thankfully, those days have passed and those types of players have either since been banned, or have moved on from Mineplex. However, I am frightened that if the dislike button is implemented, toxic behaviour will start seeping back into the forums again.

    Overall, I honestly can't see implementing the dislike button being a positive change, nor can I think of anything positive that could come out of it. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you.
     
    Posted May 30, 2019
  11. Heya!

    Dislike buttons are an unnecessary function for the forums. If you wish to disagree with something, you can post why you think the idea is bad and constructively criticize it to make it better. -1
     
    Posted May 31, 2019
  12. I don't remember this being the case at all. Also, the existence of the like/dislike button does not cause toxicity. I don't know when people will start understanding that. If someone dislikes a ton of posts for no legitimate reason, then first off, that's not actually toxic, that's just being childish, and secondly, that toxicity doesn't come from the dislike button, it comes from the person. There's a decent chance it will come out in posts otherwise, or anyway. The dislike button is merely a means of expressing disapproval or disagreement. If someone feels strongly enough, then they can respond with necessary criticism, but if an idea is just straight up bad, then I don't see a reason for it to not receive dislikes. Another idea worth exploring is that a dislike button might also discourage toxicity, as unnecessarily rude posts might receive dislikes on top of punishments.

    Here's a positive thing: a real and more accurate gauge of the community's opinion on something. I don't know that confirmation bias is the right word, but currently the community would appear to be super enthusiastic about a lot of things for no other reason than that there's a lot of likes on a lot of posts and the only way to dissent is to reply. Once someone has already addressed the points you disagree on, the only way to add your voice is to like the post of the person who addressed those points, and that still tends to get buried. Feature upvote has a lot of things sitting near the top, or disproportionately high up because nobody is allowed to downvote on there, and posting a reply is nowhere near as visible. Take even this thread here. There's 24 or so likes on the post right now, and yet we know that not everyone agrees here. Do we know how many people disagree? Of course not! We've seen like three or four different people respond saying they disagreed. We know that there's more out there, but those people aren't really quantifiable here because we have no downvote, no dislike, no click to disagree or x to doubt.
    --- Post updated ---
    You can do both. Like buttons are an unnecessary function for forums.
     
    Posted Jun 1, 2019
    SpitefulNick and leo_thya like this.
  13. You just did the equivalent of a dislike button in your post. You gave very little to barely any reasoning (and the reasoning has already been stated too) and then said that people should constructively criticize ideas to make them better. Here, you didn't really.

    I also don't agree with your reasoning, because doesn't the like button do the same thing?
     
    Posted Jun 1, 2019
    Mitchy, Fall and Vocaloiid like this.
  14. That has little to nothing to do with the dislike button. It was already removed long before then and the forums back then were already toxic, due to the lack of control over walls and not the forums itself.
     
    Posted Jun 1, 2019
  15. I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant... It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.

    If a dislike button were to be added, wouldn't it make sense to also have a like button? With a like button, people can show that they support a post and not have to go into detail about whether or not they like it, sort of like a Poll system. It also gives validation to people posting, whether or not you agree with people needing validation on a forum, it's nice to know other people support your view and I think most people would rather have a Like button than the current I'd be fine adding a dislike button, so long as if abusing it (disliking well-constructed posts with no explanation excessively) was punishable. I know your post was in response to Maple's post about dislikes being unnecessary, so don't worry I'm not taking you out of context.

    I believe the dislike button would also help people with a reflection on the quality of their posts, because from what I've seen on the well-constructed posts if someone disagrees the person will generally come up with a solution a bit later after they (I'm assuming) read the constructive criticizing post. (note, there are better solutions to the issue of the forums, which people have brought up in this thread regarding the post boosting rule, but I think a dislike button can help the forums if properly used)

    [​IMG]
     
    Posted Jun 1, 2019
    Ender Rivka and Vocaloiid like this.
  16. I think that's a tricky line. If someone is clearly spamming dislikes there could be some punishment rule in place perhaps, but I think the key word is excessively and that would have to be well defined. It's pretty subjective otherwise and I think it would quickly become very controversial if handled wrong.
     
    Posted Jun 2, 2019
  17. Hey!

    Ahh, the dislike button, the home of many different opinions. I remembered this all the way back on the old Enjin. The reason why it was removed was because players were using it extremely excessively, to the point where groups of people would go on specific posts and dislike.

    I feel that if it were to be added back, there should be a rule against spamming dislikes (There would be many variations to the rule such as if the post is constructive and well-made and is abused). This should hopefully prevent players from abusing it. If this was added, I'd be happy to add it!
     
    Posted Jun 2, 2019
  18. I see some people are saying if this were to be added, that warnings should be given out to people how dislike well made threads. A rule should never be made to punish people for simply having an opinion. Even if they are trolling, you should never assume as one may actually disagree and may not be trolling. And even if the thread is well made does not mean the idea itself could be good, which would lead to a mass number of dislikes, if dislikes were to be added.

    Let’s say the thread is well made and the idea is good; just because the person dislikes doesn’t mean they are abusing the dislike and like I said above, they may just disagree with the idea/thread.

    Well, let’s say a person has disliked multiple threads. I still don’t think the person should be warned as I still think you should not assume. The person simply might just disagree with all the threads. If a person is truly just spamming dislikes, why does it matter anyways? It doesn’t effect much and people will dismiss it, given the person is trolling. We aren’t warning people for spamming likes are we?
     
    Posted Jun 2, 2019
    SpitefulNick likes this.
  19. That's what I meant by above. But disliking a thread brings a negative connotation to the OP, saying, "Hey! I don't like this idea!", saying the idea is bad. Disliking shows a thread is bad, and abusing the dislike would say the the OP, "The community doesn't like your idea, it isn't good!"

    It just brings a negative feeling to the OP by abusing it. That's why abuse shouldn't be allowed.
     
    Posted Jun 2, 2019
  20. Define abuse, because if a rule is set in please that punishes people just for having an opinion, it'll cause lots of controversy. Just because you are disliking multiple threads doesn't always mean you're abusing it or trolling; it could quite possibly just mean you don't agree with those threads. This rule would potentially cause a lot of unfair punishments and that's why this rule should not be implemented if the dislike feature is added.
     
    Posted Jun 2, 2019
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