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Block Hunt Changes

Discussion in 'Block Hunt' started by Jaek, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. Hi so I'm here to share what I think should be done with BH in regards to balancing the game itself and less the maps since I feel like they're pretty well taken care of at the moment (though I still have a bit to share on maps).

    I want to get started with a huge part of hunting: the queue. In a recent update, the UUID queue was removed, which was fantastic. It was replaced with a different queue that we haven't figured out quite yet but we know it's not completely random and it's not UUID based. This is a huge issue (not as big an issue as the previous queue) considering that players are no longer guaranteed to be above others in the queue. This should be changed to completely random.

    Another big problem: people being afk and taking the queue. It's painful to watch someone afk a win while you missed the queue, and even more painful to watch someone get hunter when they weren't queued, complain, and leave, making some other hider get moved to hunters. To combat this, Kobra and I talked about this and we think the best solution is the following:

    Remove Auto-Queue For Hunters
    -When players switch hunter kits midgame, that becomes their default kit for queueing. This leads to the random afk players making the queue or people just trying to afk wins make the queue. If you physically make the player walk to the sheep and punch it, the queue would have far fewer people in it and the people that want to hunt will get to hunt for a win.

    New Moving System
    -Current system for moving hiders to hunters is kinda weird right now with just picking a (seemingly) random player and moving them to hunters, which isn't really fair. Instead, there should be a popup in chat for everyone that didn't make the hunter queue, wait 10 seconds, then select a random hider from anyone that didn't queue for hunter. This ensures that people getting moved are ones that want to hunt and not just a random that doesn't care


    Since the above queue change, the game has witnessed a drastic and unhealthy shift toward hunter bias. Why? Because hunters who previously couldn't make the queue are now playing more since they have a much better shot at making the queue. Additionally, this change was around the time of the map changes, which nerfed the two big hider maps: Nakoji and Atlantis. With very few hider maps to hide on and more hunters hunting, it isn't looking good for the hiders. Every lobby there's always an experienced hunter or two that can wipe the lobby in 3 mins tops. Instant is still a mess of a kit that's insanely broken so players are forced into being Instant, a hated kit among both communities. To hopefully give the hiders a nudge in the right direction, I have some suggested balances in the kits to make all kits viable and have a fitting niche for the game. A few experienced players have looked over these balances and agreed with them (and added on to them), so I'm going to share them here too.

    Swapper is notoriously the worst kit of them all, giving no PVP advantage and being the worst victim of the F3+B bug. Its unlimited swaps gives it the opportunity to be viable in a sense of bamboozling the hunters, but with F3+B and slow solidification time, it just can't pull it off.

    -Add Radar resistance: radar must be within 9 blocks to pick up a hider with swapper.
    This will allow new afk spots that won't be picked up by radar, but once found you don't have anything to help you in pvp. This also gives a passive advantage to newer players picking up the game and hiding in houses and random blockpiles.

    -Give Instant's quick solidification passive: this will allow quick changes and solidifications to where going around and corner and swapping and solidifying becomes possible, opening up a huge window for tricking hunters.

    Instant is the most hated kit in the community for how dumb you can be and still perform well with the kit, the aspect of it that disables hunters, and the insane routing potential that it has. Hopefully the below changes will make smokes have the same viability, but more fair.

    -Change boots to have feather falling II instead of feather falling III

    Feather Falling III is freakishly broken in a sense of routing because it doesn't punish you for falling as much and opens up way too many possible routes, such as dropping off a tower on eclipse and be at a reasonable amount of health. Decreasing to FF2 would help decrease that viability.

    -Remove blindness from smoke bombs

    Smoke bombs should be about getting away and less about stunning the hunters. It's unimaginably annoying to get smoked multiple times in a row since you can't see very far and your sprint is disabled. It's hell.

    -Remove receiving smoke bombs on a kill
    Getting smoke bombs on a kill gives an incentive to use them in PVP, which isn't the purpose of instant. You can easily hotkey to 7 slot, smoke, kill, and repeat for a long time, giving an unfair amount of kills and not making you choose wisely with your actions.

    -Increase invisibility time to 3 seconds
    Since I'm wanting smokes to be reworked to a getaway-oriented ability, I want to see invis time increased to give hiders the extra edge when getting away, but still not disabling the hunter.

    -Start with 5 smoke bombs instead of 3
    Smokes are getting nerfed and you aren't getting any back on a kill, you should be given more smokes when trying to escape. They won't be as annoying since you aren't blinded and can sprint in the direction you think they went, but they'll have an extra advantage in getting away.

    -Increase smoke bomb cooldown to 20 seconds
    Smokes shouldn't be chained together, they should be used for individual escapes. Increasing the cooldown fixes such an issue.

    Shocker, the old meta, is meant to be the PVP kit but is overshadowed by Instant's smoke bombs.

    -Give projectile protection I Iron boots.
    Shocker should be the PVP kit so it should have the best armor. This makes the kit stronger against both axe attacks and bows and will outperform all other kits PVP-wise.

    Infestor is an amazing niche kit that is amazing in certain situations but becomes useless in others, and depends solely on the map layout and its infestor potential. The kit needs a few buffs to make it viable outside of a 30 second timeframe.

    -Decrease infest/uninfest sound range by 33%
    One of the main drawbacks to infestor is that the whole damn map can hear when you infest and the direction it came from. This tells a hunter where to hit blocks and will lead to an unfortunate early death. Decreasing this sound range will allow you to infest more places undetected before the game begins and let you flee without hunters knowing you left in the first place.

    -Add feather falling I to its boots
    Infestor routing, the most fun part of infestor, is screwed over by the lack of protection that the kit has. Drop shelves, arguably one of the biggest and most common parts of infestor routing, cause you to take fall damage, so the kit should have some protection in that realm to help with routing.

    -Decrease infest cooldown to 5s
    The time at which you are uninfested is where you're the most vulnerable, and decreasing that time not only decreases your vulnerability, it removes a lot of the time you waste getting to a floor switch to continue a route and will lead to, once again, better routing.

    Hopefully these changes throw the game back into balance, because in the end the game should be fair for both sides to keep up the competitiveness. Right now, that just isn't the case with hunters wiping lobbies easily and discouraging hiders from playing the game they once loved.

    Now, I want to look into the issue of Leaper overshadowing all other hunter kits.

    Right now, we can ignore Taser and TNT for the most part since they'll never be viable in every game as TNT has its small, niche situations and Taser has no use.

    Although this is the best kit, it shouldn't change. Other kits should be brought near to leaper's level of viability, but nothing too huge like another ability.

    Radar, TNT, and Taser
    On maps with higher elevation, not having the ability to leap cancel (cancel fall damage with your leap by leaping into the ground just before you hit the ground), like Mesa, Atlantis, Nakoji, and Eclipse, these kits have trouble dropping down without being severely crippled with damage while already having weak armor. Each kit should receive a 50% reduction in fall damage to allow them to drop down with a lower penalty than a leaper would.

    These will be small, subtle changes just to give these kits a little nudge closer to Leaper. Radar will still be #2, with TNT being at #3, and Taser at #4 in terms of viability.

    I don't have much to add about maps but I do want to applaud the work of BHGI and Josh for getting these maps changed to better suit gameplay, because they really are more fun to play now that each side has a shot at winning instead of having an incredible bias to one side or another.

    I know this is getting a rework, but I have my own idea for one.
    These are some rough sketches to how I think Museum should be changed that would give it a push toward only a standard hunter bias.

    The map became too close to being hunter bias with the recent changes, so I feel like the top floor of the main temple should be opened back up again for routing purposes.

    Atlantis got its hole changes which completely ruined the gameplay for the main building. There are too many cutoffs for both hiders and hunters- and makes it painful to scale the top and having to run forever to get to an opening. Some of these holes need to be added back, for the sake of both sides.

    That's pretty much all I have to say, and I would like any feedback you have to be shared since we all need feedback for our ideas. Hopefully this will throw the game back into balance or at least closer to balance, but any push toward the hider side is better than nothing. Thanks for reading, and take care.
    Posted Oct 5, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 5, 2020
  2. Hi Jaek.

    I agree with most of the changes listed here. The change in content and new mechanics are definitely are definitely something id look forward to seeing how dry the game has been lately. While I agree with the changes made to the mechanics of the smoke bomb, I think it would aslo be balanced to keep smoke regen on kills but reducing the amount to a max of 1 at a time. This would let it maintain it's role as most useful for getting kills as a hider while making it much easier to track as a hunter, aslo an inheriant bias against afk players over those that ptefer to go for kills. On to maps, I agree with most of the gameplay changes however it would be nice if something was done about the unsightly flat roofs of museum that are easily visable from certain areas within the map. And overall think that more maps should be added to the map pool after the recent purdging of maps.

    Thanks for your insights, Jaek.
    I would overwhelmingly welcome these changes to block hunt!
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
  3. The point of instant isn't to be a kit to get kills. It's a fleeing kit that. Afking isn't really an issue it's fair game but people are made fun of for it sometimes.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 5, 2020
  4. Hola!

    Hunter Queue:
    I definitely agree with the changes you suggested for the hunter queue. I can definitely understand the frustration involved with missing the queue to AFK people and on the other side, I really dislike being moved to Hunter so your changes definitely align with my beliefs.

    I definitely agree with these changes. I do not believe that this will make the kit nearly as good as the balanced Instant, Shocking, and Infestor kits but it will still be viable and not completely useless as it is now.

    I also agree with most of these changes! Having more smoke bombs would definitely be useful when routing as I believe that the play-style for Instant should be more router focused than PvP. I do not agree with the 20 second cool-down though. Without blindness, the smoke bombs will be extremely bad which is why they need to be made up for in amount. I think that the cool-down should stay the same just in case you need a quick pinch after using a smoke-bomb.

    I do agree with the spirit of the changes to this kit but I believe that leather boots with Projectile Protection II would be better suited for the kit. The hunter bow is extremely overpowered and shockers have literally no ways to counter medium range bow-spam.

    I definitely agree with these changes! Infestor needs a big buff to bring more viability to infestor routing and infestor spots. I do believe that the kit should receive Feather Falling III boots and reduced radar detection similar to swapper.

    This kit is way too strong in my opinion. The mobility this kit has combined with the insane damage and armor is already enough but what really pushes it over the top is the hunter bow. I believe that the leaper kit should have a slightly weakened bow in order to make melee somewhat equally viable to bow-spam.

    Radar, TNT, Taser:
    I do agree with the fall damage buffs to these kits but I do believe that Taser should get a bigger buff to make it somewhere near the level of TNT.

    The Museum:
    I am a huge supporter of a basement level to The Museum. Currently, when you want to switch wings of map, you have to pass through a highly populated, open area which puts you in extreme danger. Big +1.

    Yeah, this map has become a bit too hunter-biased for my taste. +1 to adding the top layer back.

    I am honestly not sure about how to balance this map without making it extremely hider biased again so I do not have much to say on this.
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
    dualkong likes this.
  5. As for Nakoji, I would agree that the top layer should be added back but opening up the corridors / exits on the basement floor to the outside was unnecessary and just provides a lot more routing opportunities when that area is already one of the easiest to route and escape from hunters.

    Atlantis absolutely needed changes and I'm certainly glad that the very top tower isn't a possibility for people to hide in anymore, but it was nerfed so significantly and works well as a great hunter map now, as you said. Would completely agree that more holes need to appear and better routing opportunities need to happen, as trying to route in just the main, two floor area and the roof above that can be really difficult if you're playing against even just one good hunter.

    One of my favorite maps to route and play on is Thames Square. It can be really entertaining with all of the hidden pathways and different escape routes in the main back building, but the area is ridiculously small and offers little to no space. Eventually, if you run around in circles for long enough, the hunters are going to be able to catch on. That's only 1/4 of the entire map too- the whole map is ridiculously open, and although the brick house offers some opportunities for infestor routing, it isn't enough that you can run around for six minutes and get away scot free. The map needs a little more opportunities for routing, because 9/10 times hunters win with tons of time left in the round.

    The issue with Block Hunt maps is that they're all too hunter sided or hider sided. There isn't a middle ground that's easy to achieve- GI did their best, and did very well I should add, with nerfing or making changes to those hider sided maps as you mentioned. However, even the slightest changes can topple over a map to being one sided. Every map requires a ridiculous amount of effort and care to perfect, and eventually the community is going to memorize it perfectly. I have no problem with maps being at various difficulty levels, but I feel like with every existing map(except Eclipse Town), unless you're an experienced player you're going to have a lot of difficulty winning on.
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
  6. Keep in mind you get 3 seconds of invis, and the cooldown is 3(?) seconds too, meaning you could chain them together for theoretically 15 seconds of invis, which is no bueno. I'd think a 10 second cooldown would work well, just anything longer than the current cooldown that keeps you from using them together all the time.

    Could do proj prot II on iron boots, this is supposed to have the best armor since it's a PVP kit.

    FF3 is broken in all aspects, so it needs to be kept out of the picture. Radar resistance (for infestor) defeats the purpose of radar, which is to find infestors.

    Bowspam isn't that bad if you're routing correctly. Think of someone routing through Thames. Is a bow going to be useful? Not at all. If you don't approach a hunter and try to kill them and don't run out in the open, you won't get bowspammed. Current smoke bombs also create a bowspam meta for hunters since they can just bowspam to avoid getting blinded.

    Just open some holes again and it benefits both sides while making gameplay better, an overall win-win.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Grant138 likes this.
  7. I find it much easier to get kills as instant than shocker or any other kit, the invisibility of the smoke bomb aslo gives you brief invulnerability to players with melee pvp hacks such as ka.
    Edit: removed redundant quote
    Posted Oct 6, 2020

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