Discussion in 'New Game Discussion' started by Danese, May 1, 2020.
Read every post before you comment. Because i think you would change your mind
Hey josh, I understand the position you are coming from; however, don’t overlook the fact that our discord has 400 people and the CSForever com has 700 people. As a matter of fact, the CSForever com is in the top 16(player-wise). This is more than enough players, especially on mineplex where 3000 contiguous players is Usually the maximum global count. The player base for CS is still strong and growing. I can also guarantee you that once CS is relaunched, if mp decides to add the hub npc or a chat broadcast, player counts will skyrocket.
I represent the CS Build Team, and we approve of this thread's message.
The CS Build Team
But... It's not the truth. Just look at the amount of support this thread has received. Next, look at the amount of people who are in our Discord server. Then, look at what the community is actually doing internally.
If players didn't like the game, then how could there be a CS build team? (Which reminds me, check out @CSBuildTeam's profile. We've posted spoilers for two of the four maps that are being processed currently by Mineplex's Map Submission Team [a Mineplex Build Team Subteam]).
If players didn't like the game, then how could we have gotten over 40 people onto the Map Testing Server last Tuesday to test just one map? Oh, also, the two maps currently listed on @CSBuildTeam's profile page are both in testing as of yesterday (YAAAAY). There are a few others as well. One is in testing, the other has been accepted. Shout out to @Mohawk2 for those two, by the way. <3
And, if the CS game lobby's starting requirements and hard cap that we've suggested were implemented, the network could more than handle the game. (And if you don't know what I am referring to, why not read the thread? Many users' suggestions have been added to the main thread post within the corresponding spoilers and the authors of those ideas have been credited).
bring back cs ong ong
Wiser words have never been spoken
Same arguments were used and then they trialled it in classic cow and it started once. This was when Mineplex had more players.
I haven't replied to this in a long time and I wanted to give my current opinions on it.
Here are a few things I've seen on this post
"Staff don't care about CS"
Personally, I am for CS and that doesn't mean that all the staff members are for it. That's completely fine. Saying "#ReviveCS" in /a, and us telling you not to (yes I have seen this) does not mean we are against it. It just doesn't belong in /a. And this statement is kind of true, some staff don't care too much about CS, this is not a valid reason for it not to come back. Again, this is fine as I get it and I like castle siege a lot for personal reasons. The same goes for other games, we aren't going to remove Ex. Master Builders because "Staff don't care about it". Just because all staff "Don't care" for a game isn't a reason it shouldn't be added back. Not to mention, the other day at a map testing with the Staff Team alone (plus CoM subteams and MTT) we got enough players, I think about 45 at the peak.
General player count arguments
Personally, I don't think player counts would be an issue at all. Not having enough people for a game to start when there are 1,000 players on at the early hours of the morning is realistic, and I'm not denying that. But just because there aren't enough players at non-peak times doesn't mean we shouldn't bring it back. In fact, I'm sure you could get a game going at the earlier hours of the morning, although it might take some time. If not having a game running at times where there are only 1,000 players is your reason not to bring it back, then so should 90% of the arcade games and champions as well should be removed (not saying they should be removed, I'm just providing examples). We aren't expecting castle siege to come back with the popularity level of "Cake Wars", although we do know judging by the discord and constant MPS's that there is a player base, not to mention the players gained if it were to be a public game. Comparing Castle Siege to other games that otherwise had a movement like this is not good. This is a huge movement, and honestly, there is no way to predict precisely what will happen if this is added back I think aside from this one the rest of the player count arguments have been debunked already.
For the countless hours, I'm sure players would put into this game, the developer time is more than worth it. Not to mention, castle siege doesn't need much development at all as it is still a working game. Yes, I understand there will be bugs, but again these don't need tons of developer time to fix.
"Castle Siege was removed for a reason"
Castle Siege was also removed a good time back, and there is plenty of evidence now that supports its return. People wouldn't be hosting MPS's and having discord servers with hundreds of players if it should still stay removed.
"Mineplex shouldn't add it back in its current state"
We aren't demanding it back now. We just want to get this processed to begin the process of adding it back. Also, if we were demanding it and let's say it was confirmed it was coming back tomorrow (it's not, again another example) What state do you think Mineplex is into the point where they can't add back a game tomorrow? Again, it's unrealistic that it would be added back tomorrow but I'm just wondering, what evidence supports Mineplex isn't in a good state to add it back?
Disclaimer: This is not targeted at anybody. I don't want to make it seem I am targetting people on this thread, I love hearing the opinions and I wanted to input my response on these arguments. I apologize if I made it seem that way, as I'm just replying to the most recent arugments.
I felt the need to reply to this thread, and I am happy that the #ReviveCS movement is still going strong. I hope to stop by and play some Castle Siege later, and I hope to see you all there :)
While the bugs don't require a lot of developer time to fix, we also are currently short of developer time right now, with only 2 Java developers (1 being part-time). Furthermore, the game will need some balancing updates especially with the proposal to cut down the maximum number of players in lobbies. Not everything can be fixed by map updates. In addition, I would rather see server-wide issues being fixed rather than one gamemode, such as updating GWEN (which they are currently planning to do), removing the stacking feature bug, etc.
It was removed for a reason, and that was back when Mineplex had an even larger playerbase. Furthermore, it was given a second chance when added back into the Classics Cow rotation, and yet it still died out. That being said, I do believe Castle Siege should be given a third chance especially with the tremendous amount of support that has come in recently.
Mineplex is currently working on a new gamemode. Splitting resources to start the process of implementing both of these gamemodes will not be a good idea. Once the other updates that the Developers are working on are pushed, working on Castle Siege can be a good idea. It doesn't help that just a few weeks/months ago, we were able to hit 3k players during peak-time, and now we are barely hitting 2k.
Once this new gamemode is out, and Mineplex (hopefully) gains more players. Castle Siege can be added back to further boost the playercount.
Everyone on staff works extremely hard and we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. Moderators have no control wether cs comes back or not. Admins/Developers will know if it is or not. But don’t give up, keep trying!
Again, bugs aren't urgent to be fixed and they don't take too much time, even with a limited amount of developers. These shouldn't prevent it from coming back. They can be fixed/altered at any time. Recently as I am sure you know, CTF had a minor update that involved updating the player count amidst the current situation with developers. You also mentioned general Mineplex updates, which don't get me wrong, they are needed. I assume these general updates such as GWEN, stacker bug, and everything go with the tag you put at the bottom of your posts on here "#ReviveMineplexAndCS". Part of "Reviving Mineplex" is adding/changing/altering game modes, and castle siege is a part of that. That's when it comes down to doing updates in the order of importance. GWEN is still, operating fine and yes there are plenty of players behind it although this is a huge job right here that takes time. Castle Siege has hundreds of players behind it, and we haven't even had the game in a while. On top of this, the game isn't the biggest/most time-consuming job.
I wasn't really arguing that it shouldn't have gotten removed, however this is something I saw and my point was that now we have evidence and very sufficient evidence that people want it returned. When it was added to the Classics Cow rotation, people weren't doing what we are doing right now, and there really wasn't as much of a fan base that wanted it back.
I can't say much on this new game mode, however, it's for the most part complete. Adding back Castle Siege, before or after this game mode is released I doubt will increase the player count by much. Again like I said above, We aren't expecting this to be as popular as "Cake Wars" or similar games in popularity. We are simply trying to grow the player base so we can get better games with more players. We don't know what is going to happen to the Mineplex player count after it's added, although we do know that the Castle Siege player count will be high enough to get games going at peak times (judged off of lots of evidence that was included in the thread) Like I said above, Castle Siege doesn't require much developer time at all short term. In my opinion, this gamemode doesn't put Mineplex "in a state" where they can't add back Castle Siege. Castle Siege runs fine in an MPS, It can run fine in a public server and doesn't require much attention in the short term.
Like any other game, CS may need balancing updates, but I know from experience, a vast majority of balancing issues in CS come from the maps. If CS was to need balancing updates, they would be extremely small, and highly doubt they would take much dev time. We may not have many devs, but they are all very productive, and I think it's safe to say that it is possible for there to be CS balancing changes, and other updates.
CS failed in Classics Cow, the same reason it failed before it was removed as a regular minigame. Classics Cow required 40-80 players for a game of CS, which was simply too much. It has already been stated numerous times in this thread that CS does not need that many players to start a game, and that CS is balanced with a lower number of players.
The evidence that I believe you are using for saying Mineplex is making a new minigame is from former leader OneThousand hinting at it. I do agree that Mineplex is making a new minigame however I do not think it should be prioritized over CS. To many Mineplex players CS will be a new minigame, as many players are still yet to try it out. Also, we have no information on this new minigame. For all we know, the new minigame may flop like Castle Assault, or Heros of GWEN. I don't think we should be prioritizing a new minigame, until we have any information on it. We know that CS wouldn't fail if it were to be re-added, and many people want it re-added. Re-adding CS would give Mineplex the attention and players to start being able to add in more games, and attract more devs to come to Mineplex.
You think we should add in a new minigame, and then CS from the attention it may get, but I think the wiser option would be to do want the community wants by re-adding CS, and then adding the new minigame.
Additionally, part of the reason it failed with the classics cow is that people simply didn't know it existed. It was in an odd part of the lobby (and I don't think it even was on the compass), and the classics cow was mentioned in literally one sentence on the long announcement thread of the new lobby, with no mention of castle siege, so many players just got the idea it was gone for good, so they just stopped joining and looking for CS games, which caused them to never start.
I will agree with the fact that not a lot of developer time is needed. Any of the current major bugs and issues are actually map related and not really developer related. An example is the wolf spawn bug in Neusch. The only thing that a developer needs to do is put the game back and adjust the player count. The other bugs are handled by the CS Build Team. Our build team is a dedicated build team only for Castle Siege
I just thought it was time for me to address the recently reimplemented game mode UHC.
So, recently UHC has been brought back onto the network. I think that's fantastic! A lot of people have been vocalizing their opinions and wishes to have UHC back onto the Network. Additionally, I am extremely grateful that production and leadership are listening to our wants and wishes!
So now, I think it's time for CS to be brought back.
UHC was brought back because it has an appeal to individuals and communities outside of Mineplex. This, in my opinion, is a good marketing strategy. If it's players that we want, then appealing to a broader audience outside of the network itself is a sure-fire way to attempt to get more people on the network!
Regarding CS: There is a lot of uncertainty regarding the attraction the game has towards individuals outside of the Network. And, to be completely honest, there really isn't a way for anyone to come up with a demographic outside of the Network to assess any potential gain of players from other areas across Minecraft as a whole.
Now, the word I would like to focus on in that last paragraph is "demographic."
Yes, there isn't really a way for us to come up with some "magical number" that states how many people will join Mineplex after the game is added... That said, there is a way to assess the current Network and come up with a number of people who will play the game mode were it to be brought back into the live Network.
And, in my opinion, this thread alone has provided a concrete estimate of players who will play the game if it's brought back. The CS Discord server is presently at a little under 400 players (394, to be exact).
"Oh, that's just the number of players in Discord. That won't tell you anything."
I've already addressed over a dozen times on this thread how it does... But, alright. We'll have it your way... What else can we use to show the number of people who would play the game were it to be brought back?
Well, let's assess the amount of support reviving CS has gained elsewhere (outside of Discord).
This thread has received over 11 THOUSAND views over the past three months. Over 160 forum users have voted for the game's revival, with 24 voting "maybe," and only 12 voting "no" (which, by the way, is 6.1% of the total voters who are completely opposed to the game's revival).
But let's say that this amount of support on this thread is, somehow, still unsatisfactory to you.
Over the past several months, our CS Build Team has been:
- dedicating hundreds of hours to literally hundreds of various map fixes
- dedicating hundreds of more hours to creating 4 new maps (1 of which is listed as "accepted," with the other three presently in testing)
If this game didn't have the support that we continue to claim that it does, I can guarantee you that 1. there wouldn't be a dedicated CS Build Team, 2. there wouldn't be any map fixes, and 3. there wouldn't be 4 new maps being processed (since the first one isn't pushed just yet).
Now, with regards to UHC, the game required to be completely redeveloped from the ground up. The original code had been removed as of, I think January this year(?). And, although there was support within this community for its revival, there still wasn't (and isn't) as much support for bringing back CS.
And yes, as I have stated, the main reason for the game being redeveloped and reimplemented was due to the confidence that it could gain new players.
But let's not forget the other side of player counts. Just as important as it is to gain new players, it's also important to keep current players.
And yes, there really isn't a definitive "demographic" or "targeted audience" outside of the Network for CS as there is for UHC... But, regardless, within this community, we have shown that an extraordinary number of players want CS to be brought back.
And I understand that it's not as simple as putting CS onto a server and calling it "done." Believe me, I do. That stated, it requires considerably less effort to modify an existing game for the live network than recoding an entire game for the live network.
And, regarding the resources needed to test the game (with bug fixes or new features), we have community members qualified to work with GI and QAT. We have a CSGI team within our community (who, by the way, play a crucial role in the content our build team is working on). So... that's a bit less stress off the current GI and QAT members. Not to mention the fact that the community will feel confident in any decisions made to the game itself with fellow community members at their sides (who also have years of gameplay knowledge and experience).
And no, if CS is brought back, there wouldn't be a justifiable bandwagon of "let's bring back ALL of the removed games." The community has shown and continues to show support for CS... Arguably, even more so than for UHC.
So, why not just #ReviveCS?
THE CS COMMUNITY
I was gonna post that but Dan beat me to it. Anyway, I completely agree with everything that he has stated.
I agree. Castle Siege is one of the best games on Mineplex. I play it on my own servers with friends, but it isn't the same. I was introduced to Mineplex through this game, and I have grown to love it. So bring Castle Siege back!
Personally, I'm not a huge Castle Siege player, I enjoy it from time to time in EVENTs, but, it's evident through the responses and the actual player base online that I consistently see demanding or supporting the game via chat and MPS is huge. It was a fun game that players loved and still fight for.
Maps are still being pushed out for the game because people still play it frequently on others/their own MPS, it's not a dead game that people don't care about at all, it's one with a community behind it that advocates for its return and fuels the desire for others to get involved. There is evidently a big enough community to uphold a game like this, in fact, there is a bigger community for this game (a game that was removed a while ago) than some active games. The community for CS has been very vocal and there are huge numbers behind it, and this community goes beyond just who has forums or discord, there's definitely more on the server who I see everywhere. Whether or not this would bring new players to the server, potentially- I really don't know. It could bring back older players or players curious about the game, or it might not. But it's not like it drastically puts a dent in our player count for other games because they're already in an MPS anyway- now they have the opportunity to play the game and get more out of it.
It creates more community satisfaction and rewards players through gems/game time/shards/XP, none of which you earn in an MPS, which could encourage others to play it too. For example, if they want to go up levels, constantly playing in an MPS isn't always the best for those users so they'll play different games. Adding back a game they like that they can actually play and get rewarded for will be more appealing to them.
Overall, I'm giving this a +1. I think that this game would increase community satisfaction and has proven through their community that is a beloved game that is genuinely wanted back and would have a good community to support it.
A staple of classic mineplex, bringing it back would definetely be a step towards the glory mineplex used to be