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In Discussion Consistency With Post/Like Count

Discussion in 'Website Feedback' started by Sophie_OGrady, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. But it's not really like boosters that are the problem, it's just that there are a lot of people that just happen to get a lot of likes. It's not exactly their fault, they aren't trying to get likes. We just want the forum likes to be separate from those because forum likes are more valuable.
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018


  2. Hey Wanderer,


    I would like to know what the whole big problem with having them combined together as they are both showing the users ability to receive attention and likes from the community. As well, it says “Likes” for a reason, not “Forum Likes” nor should it say that. If anything, I believe “Wall” likes should be removed from “Likes”, however, as they’re not necessary and do not show an effort by the user.



    Hey Rivka,


    I don't get what you mean by "forum likes are more valuable". How is that? I don't see what you mean, entirely. That doesn't seem entirely true, to be honest. I think group likes are also kinda valuable--still.


    To be honest, you’re all kind of turning this whole “like button” into something more than it really is. Likes are simply just something someone receives when people like someone elses posts. Again, people in groups get likes because other group members like their posts.


    As well, saying that only forum posts are valuable isn’t quite exactly true. Groups help bring a good majority of the community together. Stroot Gang has almost 1,000 (rounding up, please forgive me, almost 700 if you want like an exact number we’re closest too) members and has many active members in a Discord as well as talking to each other in the chats and having conversations on the main page. And groups help boost community interaction.


    To say that group posts don’t matter is deprecating to these group owners and managers, honestly. Many people spend hours working on groups to make sure that people enjoy them--I myself--and making sure that the community of members they have come back to the server to check up every once and awhile, get a quick laugh in, and leave.


    Seriously, I don’t see why everyone is suddenly making this a huge issue (besides Sophie asking people to bump her post, by the way).


    To state it plainly, I truly disagree with everyone who has stated they think group likes should be removed from it.


    I’ve given my reasons, and I know many people agree with me and just don’t want to speak out about it because they too think this whole “argument” (per se) is silly.


    Regards,

    Mikey. :)
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018
  3. I feel like forum likes are more valuable because once you build up a big enough group (yes I agree that it isn't easy) you can just sit back and post a bit and get a lot of likes. On the forums you have to constantly post to get that many likes. Most group posts get liked from almost everyone in the group, but with forum posts you will only get at most 2-3 per post because not everyone will read your post, and on top of that not everyone will bother liking it.

    For example, Stroot Gang. It's only been around for 2 months and Managua already has over 1,000 likes. @Sophie_OGrady has been posting constantly for 2 months as well (probably the same amount of effort) and 'only' has 300 likes. As you can see, there's a massive difference so thats why groups likes are less valuable.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Managua has done less work or anything, 1000+ likes from groups is still an accomplishment, but forum likes are still valuable
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018
  4. As you just said, she put in the same amount of effort. Clearly, that indicates that they both deserve to be shown. If they both put the same amount of effort into getting their likes then they obviously shouldn't have any difference in value.
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018
  5. You are seriously turning this into a personal attack? She didn't ask people to bump her thread. She asked one person to reply to it if they wanted to give their opinion on it. Stop taking things out of context to make yourself and your opinion look better.

    If you seriously think posting something like "Can we get this post to 1,000,000 likes" takes 'a lot of effort', then I don't really know what to tell you except that's completely wrong. Creating a forum post with 500 words takes a lot of work, while making a group or wall post with only 7 words takes about 5 seconds to write. Literally anyone could write that.

    You and your friend disagree so much with it so much because you feel like it's attacking you and you feel like you have a lot to lose from it. Sophie never brought this up and directed it at you specifically, but you had to come into the argument and make it all about yourself while you painted Sophie as a jealous person. If you weren't a part of any groups and saw that others were creating mindless posts and receiving a ton of likes while you received nothing, would you still disagree with this thread? Probably not.

    Removing group and wall likes from the counter will be the only way to stop this "silly" argument.

    Regards,

    Kelly :)
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018,
    Last edited Nov 13, 2018
  6. Let's say Sophie and Managua both put in X amount of effort. However, Managua gets more likes from his X amount of effort. Shouldn't Managua and Sophie have the same number of likes if they put in the same amount of effort, instead of Managua getting more because he funneled his effort into groups instead of the forums?
     
    Posted Nov 13, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.
  7. I can't believe this is actually an issue in 2018. This should have been handled all the way back in 2012 or whenever it was when I got involved with this and "top likes" was still a thing that people actually cared about.

    The obvious solution here is to literally just remove the concept of likes. They contribute nothing of value, and never have — not in 2018, and most certainly not now. Half the time, they just serve as a blatant boosting method whereupon your e-friends sycophantically up-vote every single thing you post regardless of agreement or inherent quality. If a poster needs validation for the work they produce on the forums, then their actual motivation isn't actually to 'make the server better' or anything silly like that. And besides, there are better methods than likes to reward quality, should you choose to, y'know, actually reward quality.

    Since I'm positive that likes won't actually be removed as a concept, and based on the assumption that forum likes ought to mean something (given what I assume are rules against boosting, or at least a general disapproval of it since this is literally still a problem), then splitting group likes and forum likes (or outright removing the former) is an obvious solution.

    Anyone who argues that group posts are hard to come up with or 'take time and effort' has never actually maintained a blog or any real following. This is Mineplex, for god's sake. Half the audience is literally, and I don't mean that derogatorily, twelve. They're not looking for the next great literature work; they just want to see a post from the person they're following. And I should note that kind of behavior is certainly not limited to Mineplex or twelve-year olds; anyone familiar with literally any social media at all should be completely aware of how celebrities are treated, and popular Mineplex leaders are no different.

    So, with our earlier assumption that Mineplex administration generally want likes to mean something (otherwise they would have been either removed or there would be no boosting rules at all [remember that spam rules are still in place to cover for them, but boosting is a specific rule]) — the obvious solution is to split them up. I'll admit there aren't any formal rules against like boosting, at least not that I've seen, but if likes weren't intended to matter then they would be invisible, or just not removed.

    ...Which, by the way, you should still consider. Just remove them.
     
    Posted Nov 14, 2018
  8. I fail to see how wall likes require any less effort than group likes. to get wall likes you must've spent as much time networking as with a group.
    same thing happens with forum posts mate just look at wandy's response in this very thread LOOL
    can we both just agree that the amount of times people say thank u, next shouldn't affect grande's spotify monthly listeners count sir. both took effort but they aint the same
    back then mineplex was intelligent enough to use enjin, which did separate :weary:
    i chose to hope my e-friends have better things to do with their lives, but the liking certainly is biased towards people who other people think being friends with can benefit them power-wise
    well there goes my business idea
     
    Posted Nov 14, 2018
  9. I firmly agree with this idea. This will very much even things up when comparing likes. Mainly staff members get their walls frequently checked and more profile views (I don't remember if it's still recorded on Xenforo) means more likes for the most part. Community members had a huge disadvantage because their walls weren't viewed as much. It's extremely unfair to those who work hard getting forum posts out on the forums but have almost no effect in the likes leader boards. The like leader board should be added back with that twist you suggested.

    Report a User | Report a Bug | Apply For Bedrock Trainee | Apply For Java Trainee | Apply For Builder
     
    Posted Nov 27, 2018
  10. I really don't think the leaderboard should be added back. I think that has actually solved most of the issues brought up in this thread. Some people were just trying to get as many likes as possible so they could have a high spot on the list instead of focusing on the quality of their forum interactions. I haven't really seen much of that since the discussion on this thread and the removal of the leaderboard.

    Also, I am not sure if you did this on purpose but the links at the bottom of your post aren't in your signature.
     
    Posted Nov 27, 2018
  11. I don't believe the like leaderboard should be added back. However, I completely disagree that removing it is a fix for the issues presented in this thread.

    While it is no longer displayed in an overly competitive environment such as it was on the leaderboard, players are still comparing their likes to one another through their visibility on users previewed and full profiles. With the likes a user has received on display and 'in your face' while still having the ability to get them through illegitimate means the issue of spamming post on profiles and groups remain. These take little effort yet are posted in an environment which encourages the liking of posts through 'like for like' mentality, even when not it's not directly implied. This is combining figures that are gained in ways which are not comparable and displaying it as if it's recieved through the same means when this is not the case.

    It makes no sense to me to have two numbers (post and like count) always next to each other indicating to be directed linked, but in reality, have very little association to each other in a lot of cases. Whether this is displayed on a leaderboard, on a profile or elsewhere, it is displaying numbers which are misleading and at this point of time, rendered meaningless due to what it takes into account.

    I still completely stand by my original idea of changing the like counter to only count likes received on the forums themselves, and I don't believe this change has fixed any issues that have come from this.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Nov 28, 2018
    Wiz_Techno likes this.
  12. Although the leaderboard is removed (which did help a bit) there is still a sense of status about how many likes you have. Let's face it, people will never cease to be completive. Humans are naturally competitive about everything. Since we can't make ourselves less competitive, at least we can make the system more fair by separating group posts/likes with forum posts/likes.
     
    Posted Nov 28, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.
  13. Never said it fully solved the issue, just that I personally felt it mostly solved the main problem it was causing, which is that "competitiveness" over likes on the forums you mentioned. I'm still all for separating forum likes from wall/group likes; however, if the leaderboard removal is the solution Web has for now, then that's fine with me, as long as the entire problem is dealt with once the website is no longer in beta.
     
    Posted Nov 28, 2018
    Ender Rivka likes this.
  14. After some pondering, I've decided to actually go against my own idea. I mentioned that there are many bandwagoners who choose to support the most superior and those are staff (obviously varying on their position). Now, I don't think adding the leader board back will do any good. I still stand by my other opinion that wall likes shouldn't count towards your total. The amount of messages are show either beside or above/below the amount of likes so they should come from the same source, forum posts only. The most messages leader board should still stay in place.

    Do the links at the bottom have to be in my signature? I've seen a few other players do it without being warned so that was my okay to do so myself.
     
    Posted Nov 28, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.
  15. The original plan was more difficult to achieve than anticipated. And also to prevent people from begging for likes / like boosting on threads, so we got rid of stats for Likes from the members page.

    Let me know if you have better suggestions for this.
     
    Posted Dec 12, 2018
    OneThousand and Sobki like this.
  16. I appreciate that you've made steps in order to help improve this issue, however, even since the removal of the likes tab on the members page users are still trying to abuse this and are getting likes in an incomparable way. I've already explained this in my main post and replies since how this is a major issue, but in summary, people abuse profiles and groups to spam posts with the intent of getting likes (with the intent of increasing their like count) because of the general trends of those areas. This has continued since the removal of the likes page.

    As I've explained in my thread and in various replies, the best solution is to only count likes from the forums itself rather than the entirety of the website.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Dec 13, 2018
    Sobki, coralines, DanielW231 and 2 others like this.
  17. Not to mention that this is the most logical way for it to work? Enjin's system made sense and this just doesn't. Sophie is going to get more likes on her profile page than I am simply because more people follow her, but why those would ever translate to likes on a forum is beyond me.
     
    Posted Dec 13, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.
  18. If you can't compare it and brag about it, then there's no real issue with boosting such stats. Sure some individuals will still try to get the highest likes. But you can't validate that anymore.
     
    Posted Dec 13, 2018
  19. My main issue with this system is that this doesn't really make sense. Boosting, whatever it happens. But why do likes on profile posts count toward likes on forums? They're not exactly comparable and it doesn't make sense to group them. Count them separately or something, but this system doesn't make sense.
     
    Posted Dec 13, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.
  20. You can still “brag” about it by checking profiles, just saying.

    Also, since I’m totally in favor with this idea, can I suggest as an alternative dividing profile likes and forum likes with something different like the old potatoes? I don’t know how doable it is, but at least the like count would make everyone happy since wall posts would identify as one type of like, while forum likes (potatoes) would count under another.
     
    Posted Dec 13, 2018
    Sophie_OGrady likes this.

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