• 0 Players on Java
  • us.mineplex.com
  • 7077 Players Online
  • 7077 Players on Bedrock
  • pe.mineplex.com
!
Attention Internet Explorer Users
To have the best user experience on our site please consider upgrading to Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox

GI - Block Hunt Update Proposal

Discussion in 'Block Hunt' started by crazygeek516, Nov 3, 2020.

  1. Hello Hunter, Hiders, and all in between! Today I am here to propose the new update for Block hunt over on our Java network! This update thread will contain numerous changes to kits, gameplay, queueing, and general changes overall! If you would like to see the document rather than reading the forum thread, that can be found here!




    Cheating Prevention:


    ESP
    • Infestor Hider should be given back its ESP shield. Infestors used to be able to resist ESP. At the time, they were invisible in the tab menu, and had a status similar to spectator. That meant that people could not see them. This got changed in the 2018 Block Hunt update. Since then the kit has been vulnerable to ESP, and it has impacted its gameplay a lot. Now it’s not used much since once it is found it’s not able to run away conveniently. We would like that change to be reverted, with the player’s name appearing in tab if possible (potentially through a dummy name). If the dummy name is still not possible, then we would still like to change back to having an ESP shield. Ideally, all solidified Hiders, Infestors riding animals, and Infestors infesting blocks should be given the ESP shield. As above, this would remove their name from the tab menu, and having a dummy name added would be nice. Even if it is not possible to add a dummy name to show the name, this should be implemented for all Hiders. It is much more game-breaking to die to an ESPer or have kills stolen by one than it is to not see Hider names in tab.
    • ESP relies on entities, so not sending entity data to players when not necessary would prevent ESP in most scenarios. This means that ESP relies on falling sand, the baby chicken used presumably for the falling sand to ride, and the player. Each player needs to be able to view the falling sand, else they would be unable to see moving blocks. However, the falling sand entity does not need to be sent to players when the Hider is not moving. By deleting the falling sand when a Hider is solidified, or by preventing this data from being sent to players, the falling sand entity could no longer be detected by ESP. The baby chicken can use the same fix, and would only exist (or only be sent to players) when the Hider is moving. This leaves only the player data as the issue in regards to Hiders hiding as blocks. Not sending any users the player data (potentially minus the player the data is of), but leaving it as existing on the server, would allow any attacking of blocks to be handled by the server without allowing ESP to detect the player. A similar concept to these can be applied to Infestor, which does not need a falling sand entity or a baby chicken at all. Not sending the player data to others would prevent the Infestor from being detected when it is inside a block or riding an animal. Animals, uninfested Infestors, and falling sand need to be visible to the player, so ESPers will probably be able to get the position of moving hiders, animals that are potentially hiders, and Infestors that are not inside of blocks. This fix, however, would result in solidified blocks and Infestors inside blocks no longer being detectable by some forms of ESP. Additionally, players hiding as animals or infesting animals would be harder to differentiate from normal animals.

    Ghosting
    Lock spectators to the first-person spectator mode view of Hunter players. They should not be able to spectate Hiders.



    To help prevent ghosting, make the spectator compass not allow teleporting to Hiders and make it not display the distance to Hiders. To make reporting exploiters/hackers still possible, make clicking a Hider (when in spectator mode) state that Hider’s name in chat or above the hotbar. Preferably, teleporting to Hunters would also be disabled. Keeping the distance to a Hunter would be nice, but is unnecessary since you can see their name tags, and could also be removed if easier. If this is done, the spectator compass as a whole could be removed instead of having to edit how it works. Clicking a Hider causing their name to appear in chat or above the hotbar (when in spectator) would still need to be implemented. Spectator is key in reporting ESP, so this alternative fix should only be made if changes to prevent ESP are implemented.


    Friendlying
    • Cause non-solidified hiders (including animals) that are standing inside a hunter’s hitbox for more than 5 seconds to take suffocation damage. The timer should not reset until 15 seconds after the Hider is no longer in a hunter’s hitbox. The timer should not be specific to the Hunter they are standing in. Hunters often stand on their friends to make them very challenging to melee and drastically more difficult to hit with arrows. The timer on this would exist so that people running through mobs would not reveal hiders accidentally, but purposefully standing on Hiders would be exponentially hindered.

    Exploit Potential
    • Hunter abilities can still be used to get out of certain maps before Hunters are released. Hunter abilities should be disabled until Hunters are released (rather than until the game is marked as started). This is low-priority due to being fixable through map changes, but this change would help prevent them in the future.

    Imposter Taunt
    • The impostor taunt can currently be used to act as a short-range radar due to its message about being too close to other players. Disable this taunt (or this message) in BH.



    Kit Changes:
    • Various balances to existing kits.

    Leaper Hunter:

    • Change the cooldown of Leap to 10 seconds.

    TNT Hunter:

    • Rename the kit to "Bomber Hunter" for consistency with other games.
    • Destroyed blocks should regenerate 25% faster to help prevent exploiting and hindering hunters by blowing up staircases/ladders.
    • Add “Left click to throw TNT.” and “Right click to drop TNT.” to the kit description.
    • Make "Hiders!" aqua in the kit description.

    Radar Hunter:

    • Give Radar Hunter Feather Falling II.
    • Capitilize the first letter of "hiders" in the kit description.
    • Replace the note block with a music disc to prevent block glitching while still indicating that the kit is sound-based. If necessary, disable the music disc’s interaction with jukeboxes.
    • Change the disc with distance to allow it to act as a visual indicator for those who do not (or cannot) play with sound. It should only change color when held, and should always remain an 11 Disc when not held.
      [Not Held = Black (11 Disc)
      Held, x≥12.5 blocks away = Red (Chirp Disc)
      Held, 8.333<x≤12.5 blocks away = Orange (Blocks Disc)
      Held, 4.167<x≤8.333 blocks away = Yellow (13 Disc)
      Held, 0≤x≤4.167 blocks away = Green (Cat Disc)]
    • Update the kit description to reflect the new visual and auditory cues.

    Taser Hunter:

    • Replace Taser Hunter with “Saboteur Hunter”
    • Diamond Helmet and Leggings, Chainmail Chestplate and Boots (15 armor).
      Is immune to all negative effects (currently, Shocking Hider’s shock, Instant Hider’s slowness, and Instant Hider’s blindness).
    • Give Saboteur Hunter a stone sword
    • Kit Description: Passively negate the negative effects that Hiders inflict!
    • Sword Lore: Right-Click to launch a shockwave that gives any Hider it hits Slowness 3 for 4 seconds.

    Swapper Hider:

    • Give Instant Hider’s quick solidification passive.
    • Give radar resistance, in which the radar must be within 9 blocks of the Swapper for the ticks to start increasing in rate instead of the normal distance.

    Instant Hider:

    • Reduce the blindness duration of smoke bombs to 3 seconds. (Reflect change in Smoke Bomb lore.)
    • Increase the number of smoke bombs the player starts with to 4 (from 3).
    • Remove ability to regenerate smoke bombs through killing.
    • Change the cooldown of smoke bombs to 10 seconds
    • Change Feather Falling III to Feather Falling II.
    • Remove quick solidification passive (transfer to Swapper).
    • Rename kit Ninja Hider due to the loss of this ability.
    • Change kit description to “Has smoke bombs to help escape Hunters! Right-Click Ink Sack to apply Blindness for 3 seconds to nearby Hunters.”

    Shocking Hider:

    • Replace kit description with “Hit Hunters with melee to make their screens violently shake, making you harder to hit!”
    • Make the Shocking Hider hear shocking noises when hitting a hunter with melee so that they can know the kit is working.
    • Give Projectile Protection I iron boots.

    Infestor Hider:

    • Replace the Magma Cream with an Enchanted Slimeball (any enchant without a use on an item, such as Aqua Affinity).
    • Optifine’s dynamic lighting lets people see where an Infestor is when they are holding their magma cream. This lets people run directly to Infestors that do not know to not hold their magma cream, which would include anyone that does not use dynamic lighting or optifine. Since this is the tool Infestors use to infest blocks, it is often held, as infesting blocks is often used in escaping.
    • If using an Enchanted Slimeball cannot be done, any other unused item (such as coal) could be used.
    • Reduce the distance of the infest noise by 33%.
    • Decrease infest cooldown to 5 seconds.
    • Add feather falling I to its boots.



    Queue/Team Movement Changes:

    Make selecting a Hunter kit mid-game (for both Hiders and Hunters) not set default kit.
    • New players who do not know that it does this complain about getting hunter the next game, and then quit. Additionally, people often forget to select a Hider kit once the game ends after selecting a Hunter kit mid-game of the game before.
    • Alternatively, completely remove auto-queuing for Hunters. People with a default hunter kit would not be queued. Those who specifically queue Hunter using the sheep would be the first ones on the Hunter team, with those who get on it picked randomly between them. People who are a default Hider or that queue Hider would be the first on the Hider team, with those who get on it picked randomly between them. Anyone not queued due to having a default Hunter kit would fill any remaining slots in the Hunter team randomly, then be placed on the Hider team.

    When the Hunter:Hider ratio is not met, offer a “Click Me” in chat for people to volunteer to be the ones moved.
    • Only X people would be able to click on it and be moved for X missing hunters to have a balanced ratio. If not enough people volunteer within 10 seconds, select any remaining people to be moved randomly from the Hiders. The “Click Me” should work on a first-come-first-serve basis. Those who volunteered and got moved should receive the same gem reward as those who get forced Hunter.
    • When a hunter quits and someone is moved, it is often someone who wants to hide. This person then leaves, and creates a chain of people getting moved and leaving. This issue would let someone who did not make the queue but wishes to hunt, or someone who has no preference, to volunteer themselves to be a Hunter.
    • If this is implemented, change the gem reward for being forced to be a Hunter to say, “for getting moved to Hunter” so that the description is accurate for both groups that get the reward.
    • When everyone is queued for hiders in the lobby and the game starts with only hiders, the game prematurely ends at game start with the error message, “Not enough players to start”. Change the initial time players can be moved to be directly before this occurs. If the “Click Me” idea is implemented, still have it occur in this scenario if possible (would appear 10 seconds before the moving can occur).

    If all Hunters leave at the same time after the round starts, the game ends prematurely and all Hiders are granted a win. This enables people to stat boost easily.
    • Instead of ending the game prematurely, move Hiders to the Hunter team (using the “Click Me” system if possible). If the team ratio cannot be met, still move someone.
    • Potentially doable by stalling the game end enough to let Hiders get moved (and for the “Click Me” if possible).


    General Changes

    • Remove all required morphs, and instead only look at data points for which block morphs the map should have enabled. Data point info for the currently required blocks would need to be added to the current maps.
    • The required morphs tend to force a nature-style theme which causes less uniqueness in map design.
    • Allow more mobs to be morphed into. Disable their pathfinding towards/away from players, disable burning in daylight, disable riding animals (except when Infesting them) disable feeding/taming wolves and ocelots, and make all mobs roam like the animals currently do. They should not look towards players. This is because the current animals do not make sense for every theme, so allowing more would allow for more potential themes.
      [​IMG]
    • Bring back particles to the game. While a lot of hiders do not want theirs to be enabled while they hide, others will want theirs to add more of a challenge. Moreover, hunters might also want theirs to be enabled. [Upon joining a BH lobby, particles should get disabled automatically (the same way all cosmetics are disabled when someone joins lobby gladiators). However if the player re-enables them in the cosmetic menu, they should display in game.Arrow trails should also be brought back and enabled the same way particles would be.]
    • Make the timer switch to incrementing by 1 second after it reaches the seconds counter. It currently increments by different fractions of numbers making it an eyesore.
    • Change cooldown for /kill (for the Hunter team) to 15 seconds. [Some people flood chat with the kill message.]
    • Rename “Ultra Boost” to “Super Boost” due to it being the ability of the Super Axe, not the Ultra Axe.
    • By scrolling over names in chat, players can see each others’ kits (once they speak after they get a kill, take damage, or deal damage). When done against Hiders, this can impact gameplay significantly. For example, one could see “Swapper Hider” and know the person may have changed morphs, or could see “Infestor Hider” and know to check infestor spots. The ability to see each others’ kits should be removed from BH. If it is not possible to remove only this functionality, the popup when scrolling over names should be removed from BH. If possible, it could also be made to only work when viewing the podium once the game ends.
    • Add a “/blocks” (and alias “/morphs”) command that lists all disguisable blocks/mobs for the current map. Either a GUI could be used with the blocks and spawn eggs, or they could simply be listed in chat (for only the person who used the command). Add a game tip along the lines of “Use the /blocks command to view a list of the blocks/mobs that Hiders can morph into!” to show new players that this command exists.
    • Add a new data point to allow map creators to make a 5x5x5 cube of TNT protected area centered around the data point. This would help eliminate map exploits that are otherwise unfixable (since bedrock and barriers cannot fix every potential type of TNT exploit), expanding the themes that can be used for maps.
    • Add a way for directional blocks to choose their orientation by having the block set itself facing the direction that the player is facing when solidification finishes.
    • Delay giving fireworks/meows until they are usable.
    • Allow players to rearrange their hotbar.
    • Allow Hunters to permanently break dead bushes, flowers, and sugar cane, like how they can break grass.[Hiders disguised as chickens can stand in these blocks to be impossible/harder to melee.]
    • Add Daily/Weekly/Total Hunter Wins as separate pages to the lobby leaderboard (or as an additional leaderboard).



    The changes done here were quite a lot to balance out the game and make it more enjoyable and fair for both Hunters and Hiders. All changes here were done by the Block Hunt Game Insights team, and all feedback was gathered from within the BH community, GI channel, as well as the forums. With that said, if there are any questions regarding these changes or any questions on why we are doing a specific change, ask me and I'll explain everything out. Feel free to provide all feedback below. Thanks!

    - Landon
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Nov 6, 2020
  2. message to edit to something substantial soontm
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
    Anna. and landay like this.
  3. BH Best. Feedback is greatly appreciated.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Nov 3, 2020
    a0_Oe, CZArkolan, Anna. and 2 others like this.
  4. instead of chickens replace with silverfish for smaller hitbox
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
  5. If you think the ESP implementation will COMPLETELY stop the ability have any form of ESP, you are wrong.

    If the creation of an ESP mod is done correctly (this is assuming the ESP implementations to stop it are made):

    1) Detecting fake blocks will have little change in difficulty
    2) Detecting fake mobs well wasn't that GREAT at detecting anyways, so there will be little change
    3) Infestor is the tricky bit, but can be easily countered with radar.

    If making a somewhat effective ESP mod currently has a difficulty of 1, then with the changes suggested it will only be made a 10 (obviously not to be taken literally but you get the point).
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
    landay likes this.
  6. We aren't assuming that this will completely stop ESP. It will still be possible in some scenarios, but the suggested changes will make some current forms not work and make other forms less effective.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Nov 3, 2020
    landay, Aleeknossv and CZArkolan like this.
  7. Guys
    I agree
    I can't even say "SHUT THE JELL UP" because this post is too good right guys
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
  8. LOL I FOUND I WAY TO DETECT BLOCKS AND MOBS AND SLIMES JUST LIKE YOU CAN NORMALLY EVEN IF THE CHANGES ARE MADE. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
    frp and Grant138 like this.
  9. AND I WILL NEVER SHARE THIS INFO WITH ANYONE SO I WILL BE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DO IT! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
     
    Posted Nov 3, 2020
    frp and Grant138 like this.
  10. These changes will make the game more enjoyable, although I'd prefer to see ESP Plan 2 implemented if it came down to choosing between them since plan 1 only improves the game for one kit whereas plan 2 seems to cater for every kit. Implementing plan 1 would most likely lead to everyone choosing infestor hider as opposed to other kits when playing BH imo. It would be nice to see some achievement changes too such as tiered achievements for hunter + hider wins separately (might be planned already but not mentioned). The volunteering system is cool too since currently, some hiders who wanted to hunt will just die early intentionally in order to hunt and then not be rewarded for a hunter win which seems unfair. Overall a solid update though, and I hope to see these changes implemented soon :)
     
    Posted Nov 4, 2020
    Ryan9116 and (deleted member) like this.
  11. LMAO You have figured out that bows interact with player hitboxes right? Considering you only use your bow to PVP I don't really see why you keep complaining about chicken hitboxes.
     
    Posted Nov 4, 2020
    FluteVegetables and Grant138 like this.
  12. Most changes seem pretty solid and encourage higher diversity in terms of kit usage, however, I feel they do not address situational bias effectively. I had already written a GI exploring some of my suggestions for BH so I’ll just link that below in case you want to examine some of my suggestions for dealing with this issue.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/...0R-PaRvrwfKHa3B1aWGurshJLxj1V8p3amQ0OFBWk/pub [IDK if the grammar is kinda bad I typed most of it up a while ago and couldn't be bothered to proof read]
     
    Posted Nov 4, 2020
    Grant138 likes this.
    • Trolling
    I myself love ESPing in Block Hunt. So I wouldn't like to see either "ESP Plan" put into effect (AFFECT???). It is very clear that I am not alone in thinking this, there are a lot of dandy folks who also enjoy cheating in this minigame. I would recommend that we actually encourage cheating by removing one gameplay offense each time someone is caught. Now you may be thinking that this is a troll post, but what I am about to say next is me being dead serious. We do not need to buff swapper. Buffing the best kit in the game is a bad idea, and I am not calling it the best kit because I think it is powerful, it is the best kit because it is the worst kit. I represent the swapper community so anyone else thinking they know how to improve the swapper kit actually has no experience and should keep their mouths shut (JELL UP!? if this is against the rules please snip do not mute, thank you staff member). Now we also have to remember that instant is the worst kit, only noobs who are not skilled use this kit. I just wanted you to remember that, there isn't anything else I was going to add. I just noticed this while writing down here, why are we calling the solution for ESP, "ESP Plans"? ESP Plans go like this "haha funny ya ya girl in the hunter spawn". What landayy said is clearly not an ESPer plan so I cannot trust him, and he should never be allowed into the ESPer community. Now finally we are onto the last topic of my post, Flutemoney. Flutemoney is a new form of curreny which I believe Mineplex should adopt specifically for Block Hunt, meaning it can only be earned and spent inside of this one game. We could use Flutemoney to buy xray, ESP, and you also you would be able to buy mutes for other players, to get them off the streets, so to speak. I think that this post will probably get me banned since it is too rad for Mineplex's forums but if you are a staff member and you read this, and happen to laugh or go "wow this not smart please never post again", it would be appreciated if you did not remove this post. Thank you for reading guys I am the best human alive and you are not, have a good day!
     
    Posted Nov 5, 2020
    Aaron., JN_PlayzMC, mab8400 and 4 others like this.
  13. Everyone LIKE THE POST / REPLY ABOVE THIS ONE!
     
    Posted Nov 5, 2020
    a0_Oe, frp and Grant138 like this.

  14. Thread changelog: 11/6/20
    • Merged plans for ESP.
    • Swapped the Preferable and Alternate fixes for ghosting.
    • Removed Saboteur Hunter's proposed active ability (Shockwave).
    • Removed Swapper Hider's proposed chainmail chestplate.
    • Changed proposed smoke bombs to 1s invisibility, 10s cooldown, 3s blindness
    • Proposed kill command cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.
    • Removed proposed additional taunt (Firecracker).
    • Proposed adding Daily/Weekly/Total Hunter Wins as separate pages to the lobby leaderboard (or as an additional leaderboard).

    These changes to the document were all done from community feedback within the block hunt community, and there will most likely be more to come!
     
    Posted Nov 6, 2020
    Jaek and crazygeek516 like this.
  15. Gave the doc a read-through. Here's my thoughts:

    Hyper Axe Process:
    I agree the process of getting Hyper Axe can be awkward in that it feels as though you need to get it at the start of the game by going out of your way. If you think of a different way that Hider's should be able to get Hyper that would let them upgrade their axe as the game goes on instead of feeling forced to at the start, I'd be very interested.

    Queue System:
    Your proposed queue system would likely make Hunters feel forced to always hunt. Since they mainly Hunt, they would not want to switch to Hiding at all in order to keep their chance to get hunter at its maximum. A pure random system for those queued, a true first-come-first-serve queue, or a system in which chance is determined by the # of matches since you last got your selected team would be preferable to remedy this issue.

    Voting System:
    Like you I used to promote removing/editing the current voting system. However I've since changed my mind. Without voting, people would simply hop whenever a map they dislike comes up. This already happens in Mixed Arcade, where people hop if they dislike the game. The primary issue with voting stems from map imbalances, which have been partially addressed, as well as lack of maps. Changing the voting system would be like covering up the issue instead of fixing it.

    Kit Changes:
    Many of your kit changes we have similar proposals for on our document. The two largest differences are Leaper Hunter's bow and Radar Hunter's radar. For leaper, removing the bow would very likely kill the kit. Too many locations essentially require a bow to attack. Although getting bow-spammed is annoying, Leaper's mobility simply would not be able to match the use of a bow enough for people to want to play the kit. As for Radar, addressing differences in player count would be very unintuitive. As of now, if you hear ticking, you have a rough idea of how far you are from the Hider. Reducing/Increasing radar range would make this essentially impossible, and you would only know far vs close. For your Taser Hunter rework proposal, it feels as though it uses leaper's niche of mobility due to its speed. Debuffing hiders is an interesting idea though, and, like with your Shaman idea, have immunity to negative effects on Saboteur.

    Situational Bias:
    Unfortunately, situational bias is not something that can particularly be addressed. So many factors go into it, such as player count, map shape/size, skill level, routing opportunity, etc. In essence, situational bias is what makes every kit have both benefits and drawbacks. Without it, there would be no reason to pick any kit over any other at any point in the match. Hunters are able to switch their kit mid-game in order to pick which benefits and drawbacks from kits they would like at any point in the match. If they no longer feel the need for mobility, they can switch off of Leaper. If they feel radar would be good at that point in the match, they can switch to it. Situational bias in maps is also something that will always exist to some degree, as more Hunters means more eyes, making more of the map "covered" in terms of line of sight.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Nov 6, 2020,
    Last edited Nov 6, 2020
    Jaek likes this.
  16. Hey
    Hey thanks for the reply. Some of my ideas are definitely a little unfinished, however, that's why I have include such a large amount of exploration of the why behind the change which I feel is more important. I may not have the best address of an issue, however, I tried to highlight some of the issues with the hope that the GI team or another member of the community has a more effective method with dealing with this problem.

    Queue System
    I don't disagree with your comments on the queue system, however, I feel it is important to reward hunters who more frequently queue to discourage players from trying to steal queue from players such as DC, Allan, FRP, Jaek, etc. (this is very common) Players who do this usually don't contribute to the hunter team and get carried doing nothing. Players also try and take advantage of the map advantages and will only queue hunter on maps such as the museum which means players stats can often be misrepresented.

    Voting System
    In terms of the voting system, I disagree however. Due Australian timezones being different to the US I have to play during times where mineplex is extremely dead and you are lucky to have even one lobby. In this scenario players cannot move lobbies, as mineplex player base is continuing to decline I feel as though this issue will become more important.

    Situational Bias
    The lack of lobbies is also why I believe gameplay bias should be addressed rather then considered as an edibility. At times when there is only one lobby gameplay is usually extremely bias toward one team with either the lobby being extremely small (with only one LB hunter and the map being frozen outpost) or have a lobby of 20 players (with 7 players having over 1500 hunter wins, playing on a map such as museum). Yes I agree that the current radar ticking method may not be the most suitable vehicle to implement this new system (my proposal to deal with situational bias is largely centered around radar mechanics), however, I must digress that it counter intuitive. As soon as the player hears the first sound indicating that they are somewhat near a player they will begin to move toward the direction they feel the player is, if it is incorrect the radar should stop detecting the hider and the hunter will therefore be able to locate players through process of elimination.

    Leaper Hunter
    I believe you made some apt criticism on my suggestions for the leaper kit, however, I feel you missed the main point of the change. As it seems the main purpose behind the leaper kit is to chase down hiders using the mobility provided by the leap. As such it should be a class in which is viable enough to PVP and chase down hunters without the bow. A reduction to the leap time and/or a change to the hitbox interactions with bows would imbalance other classes (the radar kit almost needs the large hitboxes to win any PVP interaction with a hyper axe). By removing the bow it will decrease the Leapers effectiveness in PVP (which i feel is one of the main reason why the kit is so broken) whilst also increasing the ease in which players can get hyper axe (if a leaper hunter is getting bow spammed they can simply use a leaper to remove the range advantage). In order to address the concerns you had around the viability of the class I believe a reduction in the cool-down of this leap would be a sufficient buff. These changes hope make the kit better synergize with the kits purpose, whilst also removing the massive advantage bows give leaper hunters in PVP situations, and improving its ability to chase down hiders.

    Also please don't feel this is criticizing you, or the suggestions the GI have provided. I'm am just trying to provide suggestions I feel balance the game as effectively as possible. As you said most of my suggestions were already covered in the changes proposed, and even if these are the only changes they will still be a massive move in the right directions.

    Cheers, AOE.
     
    Posted Nov 6, 2020,
    Last edited Nov 6, 2020
    crazygeek516 and Jaek like this.
  17. I agree that this is a major issue, but I think that it would have to be fixed in a way in which a Hunter/Hider would not feel bad for not playing the team they normally do. I recall someone mentioning an idea of hiding player names in the pre-game lobby, and this would help reduce queue-stealing without punishing players for selecting a different team than normal. It does have its own issues, though, such as being unable to determine if spectators are in the game or not (for ghosting-reasons). Our proposals for ghosting do minimize its risk, but it may still occur. I would want to figure out these issues before proposing a fix like that.


    I suppose there generally is only 1-2 lobbies, even for time zones covered by the US. This would help minimize the lobby hopping, but It would make players feel forced to play maps they don't particularly like. Perhaps figuring out a way to have a voting system, albeit one that forces more map variety, could be possible. This was explored a little bit an an old thread of mine (found here: https://www.mineplex.com/threads/boredom-and-variety.96345/#post-336967). I have since given up on the randomization within maps, since map memorization is an important aspect of BH, but the voting ideas in this thread may be something to re-explore.

    You would be able to use the differences in tick-speed to determine relative distance like this, but you would have less idea of certain things, such as how far above you they are, due to the distance:tickspeed ratio changing. It would lead you in the right direction, but not necessarily to the spot itself as easily. I think situational balances regarding player count are best suited to map changes. Confined is the heaviest example of player count affecting balance in my opinion, and was going to be removed due to this, but was not due to the community loving the map. Balance for new players and veteran players is quite different, and no map will ever be perfectly balanced because of this, but changes could help minimize the disparity due to player count. I feel like the recent Riverwood changes are an excellent example of this, as the map had enough added to make it possible to win with many Hunters, while it is still small enough for Hunters to win in small lobbies.

    I do agree that Leaper is currently not in a good state. Mobility is incredibly powerful, and combined with it being the best pvp kit for Hunters, makes it used in 90% of scenarios. I would argue the mobility of Leaper is more useful for getting around the map quickly and for trying to catch up to Hiders as they turn corners, where the bow can no longer be used. Getting bowspammed, although annoying, is avoidable by turning corners to get out of the Leaper's line of sight. Our proposal to add projectile protection 1 boots to shocker would help balance out the ranged issue slightly, and swapper already has proj prot 2. Instant and Infestor both have extra routing potential that they can use to get out of the bow's range. Due to every kit having some anti-bow assistance with the proposals, I personally think Leaper could be slightly nerfed in armor instead, though the community seems to disagree.


    All feedback is appreciated, discussions and disagreements lead to better changes overall as issues with ideas get pointed out and fixed.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Nov 6, 2020
    a0_Oe likes this.
  18. I feel as though players hop lobbies based on the level of difficulty required to win in certain lobbies and/or maps, however, your idea sounds like a welcome addition and would be much improved map system to the current one.

    If the names were removed players would still attempt to steal queue, due to players from the previous round most likely staying in the lobby. Perhaps the system could be slightly shorter sighted to reduce the bias toward players who queue every single round (say the last five games, players with the same priority will be chosen randomly), as players who do not usually play hunter are able to gain similar priority in a relatively short space of time. Also keep in mind that if players who play hider often do want to hunt however, they can do so by killing themselves at the start of the round or disconnecting. Yes this does not give statistical wins, but I would argue that hider mains do not strive for hunter wins. If they do decide to strive for a substantial amount hunter wins then this system will support them as it bias's queue towards players who queue more often.

    Even if it only provides the direction of the hider at least it is still somewhat of an advantage, and I would argue that it shouldn't be a sure way of finding hiders (as this would decrease the skill level required to find hiders drastically). The main goal of both the MVP and player size radar mechanics is to give somewhat of an advantage to reduce the win probability deficit. Also I believe it is extremely important for leveling out gameplay for hiders in maximum capacity lobbies. As I discussed in the document I also believe maps are highly influential over gameplay. Thus I also suggested that the removal of Shadowed Amazon, and that changes be made to The Museum (Confined. Atlantis, and Nakoji also have valid arguments for removal). However, most maps have win rate probabilities which are extremely volatile based on the lobby size. For instance Thames Square is IMO somewhat hider biased in small lobbies (due to the ease at which you can stall/juke hunters in the section facing the opening of hunter spawn), whilst in maximum capacity lobbies with capable hunters the lobby is extremely hunter biased (as spots which work well for stalling/juking a single hunter are ineffective when faced with the amplified effects of increased hunter concentration due to the small size of the map). As such I feel as though it is almost impossible to balance maps in all scenarios without making all maps hider biased in smaller lobbies.

    Avoiding bowspamming from distance is not a problem as a player (if good enough) can use F5 in order to identify when hunters are about to shoot and dodge accordingly. Consequentially this is not the reason why I believe the leaper hunters bow should be removed. The reason I believe the leaper hunters bow should be removed is due to the way the bow interacts with player hitboxes, the damage it deals, the leaper hunters armour and the effect this combination has on PVP scenario's. Currently hiders who attempt to PVP leaper hunters are faced with a scenario where they are versing a player with an extended range and full iron armor, whilst in contrast they must fight fighting with leather boots with some advantage in terms of damage and health regen (with no hitbox advantage). Players who have good aim with the bow rarely miss a shot in close range situations (especially considering the players are running at them), and as soon as they hit a shot the hiders are essentially stunned for a short space of time (due to the KB effect of the arrow) meaning the next shot is easier to hit. This means hiders can rarely get close enough to deal damage and often results in players running. in which case leaper hunters can simply leaper after them whilst bowing them using the new bow mechanics. Whilst the most viable method of killing leaper hunters atm, who bow spam, is by using a smokebomb and then strafing close enough to deal damage. As this method is getting nerfed I believe that the bow will become an even more effective method in close quarters if it does not get removed. For the only way this situation can be countered (without the smokebomb method) is by pinning a hunter against a structure and using the hitbox advantage to counter the armor disadvantage. This is extremely hard to achieve however, and this limits the spots players can hide, thus making their playstyle more predictable and increasing hunter v hider interactions. PVP in this scenario isn't particular biased towards hiders either, meaning everytime you verse hunters in this situation you will most likely come out of the fight extremely low (and thus vulnerable to being cleaned up) or lose eventually. If the bow interaction is changed solely due to the leaper hunter then kits lacking mobility will be extremely disadvantaged. Further, the projectile protection nerfs will not balance out PVP situations as the main problem as hiders will still not be able to get close enough to hunters to deal damage, and if they can then they will most likely be low or have taken damage further disadvantaging a somewhat balanced fight. The main benefit it will provide is to hiders running from hunters, and as discussed in the beginning there is already a method to deal with this hunter approach. This will also continue to encourage players to use the instant hider kit as it synergizes most effectively with the best method (which will continue to be the best method in the proposed method IMO) for dealing with many of the top hunters, which is to run (usually using routes) or to outmaneuver them. The only time PVP is required is against players who are less skilled (and they can easily be dispatched using any kit) thus discouraging people from using the shocker kit and lowering kit diversity. I wouldn't mind your armor suggestion being explored further however, seeing as though the radar kit is still quite underwhelming in close combat scenarios despite having the bow, however, I feel as though the radars lack of mobility also plays a part (as players can escape with increased ease if the radar hunter starts to bow spam). Moreover, the current nerfs to the bow will be IMO ineffective at decreasing the leaper hunters overwhelming advantage in combat, it also further reduce the effectiveness of less mobile hunter kits.

    Cheers, AOE.
     
    Posted Nov 6, 2020,
    Last edited Nov 7, 2020
  19. I know, I'm late but I will still try to share my opinion on these proposals. I'm gonna refer to the 1st message and the thread changelog (only things I highly disagree or agree with).

    Ghosting
    Well, starting with a hard one. Ghosting can be annoying for hiders - no doubt, but on the other side ghosting (compass) is the main tool for the BH community to find hackers (mostly ESP users). In my opinion, ESP is a bigger problem than ghosting and we shouldn't be taking away from the community the only tool they can use to ban ESP'ers.
    I agree ghosting is a problem and it needs to be solved. However, we can solve it after solving the ESP problem(proposed solving seem good to me ;) ).

    Friendlying

    I don't agree with your solution. I think it's part of the game - when you play CakeWars you don't always eat everyone's cake or kill everyone, right? I used to chill with the last alive player for a bit just for fun. And yes, you're right - my teamm8's can kill him if I don't want to (yet). And this is good. Solution for BH then? Make hunter's arrows go through other hunters. Unfortunately, I have no idea if this is easy/possible to implement - I'm not good enough with Minecraft's code. But if it is - I can't think of a better solution. This would prevent trolling and allow hunters to win games without any problems.

    Exploit Potential

    I mostly agree, but Radar Hunters should keep their radars. It's harmless, so we shouldn't be taking away useful items without a reason!


    Kit changes
    A) Hunter


    • TNT Hunter (Bomber Hunter) - very cool changes!
    • Radar Hunter - I agree with everything besides Feather Falling 2. I think that radar (Radar Hunter's kit item) should be the only perk this kit gets since radar makes finding hiders easy enough. They (hiders) should at least have a chance to kill or throw off the roofs.
    • Taser Hunter (Saboteur Hunter) - I can see that this kit's active ability is removed already - good, it was broken, lol :P. I don't think this kit idea is any good - neither was the taser kit. It seems like everyone is trying to make this achievement's kit counter to shocking hider...which is not necessarily a bad idea. Unfortunately, this thinking made the Taser kit completely useless and is making another unbalanced kit, this time in favor of hunters. I don't have an idea myself, but I think we should really think outside the box, and not focus on countering shocking hider (or instant). As history shows - this ain't a good idea.
    B) Hider

    • Swapper Hider - cool changes, will definitely make this kit more useful.
    • Instant Hider - this kit definitely needed nerfing, and I'm glad to see these proposals. Maybe instead of giving all 4 bombs during the start allow this kit to use 1 smoke bomb every 1 minute? This would prevent "bomb spamming" (I know there's a cooldown, but this would force hiders to think and plan more). If not, I'd say we increase that cooldown. 10 seconds still seems like too much for me.
    Infestor Hider - good changes. Enchant on slimeball...what about knockback (I)? I think this would make this kit a bit more interesting without ruining gameplay. Just a cool small perk :P

    Queue/Team Movement Changes

    A) Make selecting a Hunter kit mid-game (for both Hiders and Hunters) not set default kit. - I think this is what we all have been waiting for! This would definitely help new players and allow me to delete my autotext... <3.

    B) When the Hunter: Hider ratio is not met, offer a “Click Me” in chat for people to volunteer to be the ones moved. - X number of people = how many exactly?. I agree with all the rest - wise changes.

    General Changes

    • Animals - more animals would be awesome. Ocelot on this list looks scary tho o_o. MrShadowq dislikes ocelots - something's wrong with them.
    • Particles - No. I can see your point of view, but allowing anyone to use particles, also freedom ones, would make it easy to troll. Anyone could turn on some huge wings and show hunters way to other hiders. And what about the size? Can you imagine chicken with some crazy big wings? This would definitely ruin the game, although I really like the "challenge" idea ^^
    • /kill cooldown - Why don't we make it even 20?
    • Axe boost rename - I had no idea about this even tho I have almost 4k wins xD.
    • Scrolling over names - I don't think this impacts gameplay a lot but it should be removed. Removing popup tho wouldn't be good. I think most of us hover over someone's name to see how many kills/death etc. they have, not to see their kit, which is why this option should stay.
    • Add a “/blocks” (and alias “/morphs”) command - If command, it definitely should have GUI. However, I'd like to see this feature (if it's really needed) to be accessible through our inventory. For example, clicking on the dirt block on the 8th (which would be added there) slot would make GUI pop up!
    • 5x5x5 cube TNT - > ,,Hunter abilities can still be used to get out of certain maps before Hunters are released. Hunter abilities should be disabled until Hunters are released (rather than until the game is marked as started). This is low-priority due to being fixable through map changes, but this change would help prevent them in the future."
    ,,I mostly agree, but Radar Hunters should keep their radars. It's harmless, so we shouldn't be taking away useful items without a reason!"

    I think that the best solution was already proposed by you in "Exploit Potential" (with my changes :P).

    • Allow players to rearrange their hotbar - yes, yes, yes!
    • Add Hunter Wins - Make it an additional leaderboard and name it "Hunter Wins". One leaderboard with 6 pages would be a mess.
    Thank you,
    Shadow <3
     
    Posted Nov 17, 2020
    crazygeek516 likes this.

Share This Page