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How Assassin Can be NERFED.

Discussion in 'Clans' started by BurgerFrie, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. Honestly, if you hate or love the assassin kit you have to agree that it is overpowered, Assassin makes other kits unplayable and makes the game boring.

    -Possible Ideas to nerf Assassin.

    *Change the Assassin speed 2 to speed 1
    *Remove Illusion
    *Remove Smoke Bomb
    *Change the perk from getting 5 flash charges from flash 4 to 4 flash charges
    *Decrease the additional damage from backstab
    *Increase the cooldown for recall (if smokebomb is removed)

    -Sorry if my English isn't good, It isn't my first language.
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2019
    SpitefulNick and GAM like this.
  2. Change the Assassin speed 2 to speed 1
    This won't fly with the champions community and is would nerf assassin to the ground

    Remove Illusion
    Illusion is fine when it is not buggy

    Smoke Bomb
    :D [from clans]

    *Change the perk from getting 5 flash charges from flash 4 to 4 flash charges
    This won't fly with the champions community and does not change much to be honest

    *Decrease the additional damage from backstab
    I'd rather decrease forward facing damage to 6 and keep current backstab dmg the same

    Increase cooldown for Recall
    Recall is very balanced already, it does not need a nerf

    Sorry for posting short responses :(
    If you want me to elaborate on something please tag me [ @Xion ]
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2019
    Vraz likes this.
  3. As we can only nerf assassin to an extent (due to the shared codebase between DOM and clans), we should consider buffing the other classes. At a minimum, I would like to see all of the drop sword / axe skills for knight and brute changed so that you cannot accidentally drop your weapon. Basically, if the skill is on cooldown and you attempt to drop weapon to use intim or anything it drops the weapon. Pretty sure this is an oversight, would like to see it patched either way. Whilst I preferred these skills as passives, I am sure that they were changed for a reason. Maybe make intim not affect teammates, and make the cooldowns for the dropsword abilities for brute and knight much shorter? It might also be a good idea to have a separate codebase for clans (although this would take a lot of time to implement).
     
    Posted Sep 13, 2019
  4. why don't they just remove assassin from clans because it is too powerful everyone is playing its especially hacker remove it will return balance to clans
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  5. Assassin doenst need a nerf at all they just need to fix the bug it has big counters you can only smokebomb if slowed and also if silenced or bulls charged its balanced

    <_> Closed <_>
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  6. Have to agree that for assassin it doesn't really need a nerf. Sure everyone complains about illusion smoke bombs but there are plenty of hard counters to sin. Main 2 for me being immo mage w fissure, and napalm overcharge longshot. Sure people complain that ranger and mage should be removed but all the kits are there to suit different players styles. I suggest if you want to counter sins to run one of the build above. Or maybe ask for other kits to get things to counter sins although that isn't really needed. Brute has intim and knight has ripo and bulls charge.

    --Echo
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  7. How does immo+fissure counter sin? Also since long shot was nerfed, you pretty much need to have 100% accuracy to make that happen. Plus neither that brute or knight suggestion is going to work on a half decent sin.

    I don't care how they nerf sin, it just needs to be done. High damage classes shouldn't get free hits.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  8. immo fissure doesn't counter but throw in rupture and ya got urself a really mean build. also, back in the day u could counter assassin with a glitched ranger build. Disengage 4 naplam 4 overcharge 3 longshot 3 resistance 1. makes quick work of every assassin. it prob would still work today. also papikirito u clearly dont play ranger bc if u dont know how fast and how much damage naplam overcharge longshot does. okay dont even talk bout brute. u haven't heard of takedown 5 intim 3 crippl 1 res 2? also dont talk about knight. def stance 1 bulls 3 (1 skill point + booster axe) deflection 3 fortitude 3 resistance 3 and block-hit w/ def stance and u can win duels with like half health+ left. also wtf do u mean by nerfed? it is super broken in dom where it activates from like 3 blocks. and if somethin is broken in dom then it is even more broken in clans which is true. however from your context of speach you sound like an illusion hitter or someone who illusion hits because a half decent sin can't counter unless they illusion hit.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  9. Ok hi, yeah I dunno why fiss immo works for me. Ig it's just the slowness and high smh from fiss, also throw in rupture or static and you can kill a sin ez. Strength 2 gives great damage and fire DMG stops SB invis. Also talking abt ranger you cans till almost one shot a sin from close range now that longshot automatically does extra dmg no matter what range.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  10. Assassin
    was meant to be a glass cannon. In other words, it was meant to put out high damage while being crippled very easily.
    So a couple of things that I noticed while going over these replies-

    "why don't they just remove assassin from clans[...]"

    They will not remove an entire kit from clans. If you think the game is completely out of balance now, just imagine what would happen if they take out Assassin. Ranger would be the new meta. Take out ranger? That completely ruins kit freedom and diversity, and just makes the kit that can travel faster the new meta. You can't simply remove an entire kit from the game without creating an imbalance in the force.
    "everyone is playing its especially hacker" hackers will always use the best kit. Thankfully, if it's an assassin versus assassin fight, you can beat the hacker by using your skills correctly. If it's a tank vs tank fight against a hacker? You'll lose, unless the hacker is very inexperienced, which is unlikely.
    "Have to agree that for assassin it doesn't really need a nerf/ Assassin does not need a nerf"
    I do not want to touch on this too much yet, I'll save it for the end, but let me just make it explicitly clear, Assassin is not balanced in Clans at the moment.
    "but there are plenty of hard counters to sin."
    While this is true, you should not have to make your kits revolve around countering a certain class, and frankly, most of the Assassin counters can be easily taken out by many intelligent players.

    "Immo mage fissure" - This can take out Assassins, yes, but if you get silenced? Or what if I bait out your skills? Fissure goes in one straight direction, so it's very easy to miss as well. Immolate is a really good counter for Illusion / SB assassins, but the free hits that you can get make it extremely easy to kill any mage.

    "napalm overcharge longshot" - So what will you do if I use a water bottle to cancel your napalm damage, then proceed to rush directly into you? You won't have time to charge up overcharge, and longshot won't do much damage when I'm up close to you. If you suggest also using disengage, it is very easy to bait that out as well.
    You may have seen many players die to this, but most of the Rangers using this sit in their base. We don't want to promote a camping play-style, because I can assure you that will be much worse than what we have at the moment.

    "Intim + Takedown / Bulls Charge + Any Sword Ability"
    Yes, these work, but how efficient are they really? If you use Intim, I can just smoke bomb away. If you use takedown, I can use my bottle then flash away. Bulls charge? Smoke bomb. Hilt Smash? Smoke bomb. Riposte? Smoke bomb. Defensive stance? Well I control engagement and disengagement with smoke bomb, so I chose to leave and not fight you at all, or silence you to stop you from using defensive stance. While you may provide a counterargument, saying "just make it so Assassin can't use Smoke Bomb while slowed", you must also realize that players can just use a water bottle and then escape with smoke bomb that way.

    "back in the day u could counter assassin with a glitched ranger build"
    If you have to use glitches to counter a kit, there is another issue on its own.

    -------------------------
    Assassin needs to be nerfed. It has been the meta kit to play for a very long time now, and that needs to change. The abilities Smoke Bomb / Illusion are perfectly fine in Dominate when they do not give you free hits. Smoke bomb will never be fine in clans, and as we do not have a separate code base, there is a limit to how much we can change. While I wish we could just completely vault the ability from clans, that's been denied, so the most we can do is negate the amount of free hits you can get at once, by removing the ability to use both Illusion and Smoke Bomb at the same time.

    As for the Illusion Glitch, we've been told those will get fixed by the next Clans update. All we can do now, is just wait.

    ~Xiiion
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
    Vraz and Veans like this.
  11. Ok so I read through your thread and I have to say that it pretty much summed up everything about assassin, counters etc. But honestly, especially in Dom games, it all comes down the personal preference of a player and their playing style. As for napalm shot, not many sin players I see carry water bottles in a champions game. As for immo mage, I've used it a lot so countering sins isn't as much of a problem for me anymore. Yes, I agree that sin needs a nerf, but we also need to be aware of what this would impact the game as a whole. Most of the champions community is accustomed to the meta revolving around sin and have developed ways of coping with it. I think that a change in mea would certainly make games more fun and interesting, but I'm sure a lot of people won't agree (namely sin players). That's my thoughts on this issue though. Have a nice day/morning/evening/night ;D

    --Echo
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
  12. Yes, I do play ranger. I know it's good when it hits, but what I meant by the nerf is that they gave long shot a cool down so you really need to hit that charged shot to make it work. And yes, I have heard, and used, both of those brute and knight builds and still gotten decimated by sins. I'm no where near the best player around, but I'm good enough to the point where I should not be getting 7-10 hearted every fight. And what about me saying sin needs to be nerfed makes me an illusion hitter? A half decent sin doesn't need to illusion glitch to counter- practically half of sin's skills make it hard/impossible to hit if played correctly.
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
    Xion likes this.
  13. Technically, we have a way to get around the shared codebase issue. There just isn't a system in place to fully implement the idea. It's already half implemented and we know it works. I haven't heard talk about it in a few weeks though, so I have no idea if it was ever proposed.
    --- Post updated ---
    Fissure gives off an initial slowness in the direction it's heading and has a box of 1 block around it iirc so it's kind of forgiving. Still quite counterable but it is a good option nonetheless.

    Remember that sb duration is cut in half if activated while slowed which is surprisingly nice although I don't see many players utilizing intim even though it's really strong.

    Free hits always an issue :/

    conclusion: these are all valid counters to assassin if you're game sense is equal to or above that of the opponent, otherwise the sin will bait out your skills and kill you with all the extra hits in the world :)

    sorry this is like sporadic
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
    Vraz and Xion like this.
  14. praise the lord chiss above (though i doubt anything will come of this it would be nice)
     
    Posted Sep 14, 2019
    Xion likes this.
  15. Yeah, and apparently we never told Grandpa about the idea until yesterday z.z
     
    Posted Sep 15, 2019
    Xion, SpitefulNick and matrixyst like this.
  16. this is the most clans sentence i've read in a long time
     
    Posted Sep 15, 2019
    GAM, Intex, Xion and 2 others like this.

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