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It's Nerf or Nothing.

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by xOeuf, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. i agree that buffing is a better option than nerfing, but in a game like this, it's about balancing things out. extremely high tier kits should be nerfed, and low tier kits should be buffed. they should all lean toward the higher tier side to keep things interesting, but that doesn't mean overpowered kits shouldn't be nerfed. a low tier kit can beat a spider, but a skilled spider is nearly impossible to beat unless the map is one that makes it easy to hit off. even then, spider can just climb back up without an issue. its arrows do an insane amount of damage compared to other quickly recharging projectiles in the game. chicken's eggs are a good example of a balanced projectile, because they don't do a lot of damage unless you hit all of them, but they still work as a fishing rod of sorts. if even one of spider's arrows hit you, it poisons you and deals a fair amount of damage if you have low armour. you don't even have to be that precise with your arrows, you only need to spray them in a general direction. on top of that, if you catch someone in a web and they don't have any moves that can get them out, they're pretty much dead. low defense kits like chicken or slime don't stand a chance against wolf or spider, because as long as you have good aim, they don't have enough time to bait you off the edge, if you'll even fall for it. they die too quickly to wolf's ravage or any of spider's moves. wolf counters most of the game's kits, and spider doesn't really have much of a weakness. attacking it head on is a bad idea, and attacking it from behind is a bad idea, since it has projectiles from both sides. it can aim its poison arrows in any direction, so melee fights with a spider are extremely hard. even if you manage to get it low, it can run faster than most of the kits anyway. same goes for wolf. a lot of spider or wolf mains could be beaten easily if the kits weren't so insanely overpowered.
    buffing and nerfing are both important, so i don't think it's a very good idea to focus on just one :/
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
    neropatti likes this.
  2. If every kit is overpowered, then technically the game is balanced. If every kit can deal with every kit, well then the game is fine.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
    Bonse likes this.
  3. Considering you are a chicken player, the worst kit in the game, it would make sense why you despise top tiers so much. I never said to not nerf spider, as it does need some adjustments such as dj xp and needler nerfs. But, it really doesn't deserve drastic nerfs. You shouldn't really go and respond to my reply (which I do apologize for being a wall of text, I didn't feel like making proper paragraphs) if you don't actually fully read it.

    You would've realized I did want some nerfs, but not a lot. Kits such as chicken, magma cube, wither skeleton, or most of the low tiers (anything below snowman), are a lot worse than they should be because of bugs. For example, chicken missle sometimes will not reset cooldown if hit through a wall or close to the edge of the hitbox. Honestly, you wouldn't need to buff some low tiers too much for them to viable if you just fixed their bugs. Wither image is an underpowered move because the ai is poorly programmed and will kill itself at times. It also doesn't die properly on maps with a large void, making the ability much less powerful. If its AI was actually fixed, wither skeleton would probably place at least 4-5 spots higher without drastic buffs.

    A complex kit does not equal a good kit. Look at villager. It's complicated with 4 different forms and require a lot of strategy, but it only places at B tier, being one of the worst kits in the game. SSM is a fairly low skill cap game (It is only a minecraft minigame at all), and spider isn't even really too technical. It's mostly based off triple jumping, an easy to master technique and probably the hardest part of spider is mostly melee combos.

    Spider is not an impossible kit to defeat. You really don't necessarily need a super good top tier to beat it, it's more about the matchup knowledge and knowing what spider is capable of. You need to respect spin web and learn to play around it. Fighting games are based off of mindgames. Considering you play a kit as basic and annoying as chicken, I can see why you have an issue with forming mindgames at all. I've seen top level spiders beaten with kits outside of the top 5, and it's fairly possible because ssm is not a serious esport which means spiders are not super optimized.

    I do agree with adding spider dj xp, but it is very different from chicken instant regen. I don't remember chicken ever being a good kit in its entire lifespan, so I don't get what you're saying. Spider has been nerfed in practically every patch of SSM, spider is quite toned down from what it was in 2015/2016.

    Overall, I don't think you interpreted what I said correctly. And spin web can be handled well by Spider, Creeper, Squid, Wolf, Enderman, Magma Cube, Skeletal Horse, Blaze, and Wither skeleton, covering almost half of the cast. Bad matchups will always occur. Learn how to play yours. Buffing is also better than nerfing because it does not change the way players must play their kits in a negative way.

    Get good if you want spider to have such drastic nerfs.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
    Johnny Welamton and FreezaSama like this.
  4. Try learning how to play the game and getting good. I'll be waiting

    There are a lot of problems with your logic. A lot. Don't worry I'll put a TL;DR.

    He didn't say stop nerfing entirely. You can still nerf and buff, it's just more buffs would make the game a bit more fun. For example, if you know Super Smash Ultimate/4, Cptn Falcon was a pretty good character. Yet, in Ultimate, he still got more buffs than nerfs. And Ultimate is REALLY balanced, much MORE balanced than smash 4.

    Lets be honest, Chicken with instant regen was pretty cancerous. The two kits have different purposes. Spider having jump regen made the kit just completely boring and was against its purpose of being a combo kit. It deserves a nerf in another area.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
  5. Oh boy, here we go, because I main X kit my opinion is worthless. God damn I love the SSM community.
    And the constant spamming of "git gud" because I can't dodge a shotgun ability that not only has a large hitbox for each projectile, but only needs to hit one said projectile to completely destroy the opponent.
    If you're as good as you're making yourself out to be, do tell me how to play around Spin Web, I'm VERY curious. The only way to reliably dodge it is to be very close to the Spider so the webs don't have distance to spread, which probably just means you're gonna get destroyed by the combination of Needler and directional jumps (and this isn't even something Chicken particularly needs to worry about).
    And I never said anything about Spider being impossible to beat. There's a pretty large difference between "near" impossible and actual impossible (like how Snowman V Wolf is impossible). The only thing I said was that Spin Web is impossible to dodge from a good Spider unless you're a kit with hella fast mobility such as directional jumps (or they get screwed by RNG), which I completely stand behind.
    At the very least you can see reason in that Spider should be nerfed, instead of buffing every kit to high heavens like the next person.

    And to @SirInHueman , you didn't answer the first question. I'll admit to being bad (after playing the game for 5~6 years) once I get a legit answer to the question. "I'll be waiting".

    And sure, instant regen Chicken was cancerous. But so is Spider. The difference is that one of them was cancerous at low levels, and the other one is cancerous at high levels. In an ideal world, neither one'd be cancer, but apparently having Spider move at anything under mach 10 is unimaginable.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
    neropatti, Bonse and CCozy like this.
  6. Believe it or not, "get good" is, in fact, not good advice, or advice that helps anyone dodge an RNG ability. Good Spiders will consistently hit the move against any kit that can't go at mach 10 like the Spider itself, assuming they don't get screwed by said RNG (can you tell I dislike RNG?).
    And honestly any point you would make is very hard to take seriously when all you do is indirectly or directly insult me.

    ...

    Well, if anything, I can join in on the salt about MP not having any dam- dang developers and the server's focus on the boring gamemode that literally every server has, rather than the unique and interesting gamemodes such as SSM or Champions.
    ...or HOG. I'm still salty.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
  7. Hmm, depends on what type of overpowered. Having stat issues or playstyle issues. For me, I think spider's issues come from the playstyle. Just because everything is overpowered, doesn't mean every kit can deal with another kit.
     
    Posted Jan 7, 2019
    SirInHueman likes this.
  8. Okay, I tried defusing the situation, but lets continue arguing until the end of time I guess.

    The RNG does make a pretty big difference. Not because it changes the spread drastically, but because getting hit by a single pellet the move is death for many kits, while just about every other kit loses over half their HP.

    And believe it or not, in the around 6 years of playing the game, I have in fact learned to WASD. It's not a lack of dodging skills, it's a matter of me not abusing Spider, which can easily dodge anything with it's insane mobility. I suppose it's MY fault for not enjoying the insanely mobile kits which, most of the time, also happen to be the best ones in the game.

    I've seen your comments across the forums, and I really don't understand your obsession of being "rude" towards everyone. Are you just trying to act superior? Do you have low self confidence?
    I really, quite don't understand you.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
    neropatti likes this.
  9. Being rude == low self confidence ??? Hey man if you tried defusing the situation, try not responding? I would think that would be your go-to to end an argument on forums. As for your response balance wise, it just doesn't make any sense. RNG is an element built into a game. Dying OR losing loads of health from getting hit by web isn't an RNG problem. It is a balance problem. I don't know why you have so many troubles dodging a really easy to dodge move considering you main chicken, that has multiple jumps. I'm gonna have to deem this a severe player skill issue.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  10. People with low self confidence often are rude and insult other people to make themselves feel better, this isn't a secret.

    Sure, RNG is an element built into the game, but just about everyone hates RNG in games that are supposed to be competitive. Sure, games like Smash Bros have RNG in them (Luigi SideB, Peach turnips), but they're far less aggravating than they are hype when they happen. Getting hit by a single pellet of Spin Web that flew in the opposite direction from all the others' isn't hype, its annoying and bull.

    And I don't think I ever said I have problems dodging webs. It's just annoying that no matter how good I am at dodging, they might still hit me (or vice versa, if the Spider does a good Spin Web and misses completely due to RNG. But RNG is a game mechanic that exists so its fine!).

    Honestly it seems like your only arguments are "chicken player = opinion doesn't matter" and "player skill issue" (which is literally a sarcastic meme), so unless you really step up with your next comment, I'll take you up on your offer and stop taking anything you say even slightly seriously.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  11. Man, it's almost like good players can get screwed by RNG, and that's why I dislike it.
    It's also hella hilarious that you accuse me of not reading your comments when you seem to do the exact same.
    I also don't know if you're all-seeing or what, since you can judge someone's skill based on what kits they dislike, no matter the reasoning.

    Your only arguments still are "you main chicken" and "you're bad", so clearly you can't hold a decent debate over anything. I'll keep to my promise now.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  12. Well if you're not gonna read my post that's fine. Let the other people hear what I have to say about it --

    In my post I literally say "It's not cuz you main chicken". I don't know how else to show you I don't care if you main chicken. I didn't say I judged your skill on what kits you "dislike". I said, based on how your somehow constantly getting hit by a move that requires the user to do a complete 180, your probably not a good player. ALSO its not an rng element. Ofc good players can get screwed by rng element, but web isn't an rng element.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  13. Okay, somehow your comments keep enticing me to come back here, but how does a 180 degree turn make the move easier to dodge? It makes it harder to hit, but not a single bit easier to dodge. A god Spider will still hit the move, and then it's a shotgun with oneshot pellets.

    And yes, while I did misread the "chicken player" part, you're still hard to take that seriously when the one argument you repeat is "you're bad".

    Hopefully I stop commenting on this thread now. This is a waste of everyone's time.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  14. Your signature lmao
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  15. How about this, @SirInHueman, instead of telling Rainbowtrol to just dodge, tell him how to dodge. Perhaps give him specific situations and how to react to them. Just telling him that he’s bad isn’t helping. If you give him a legitimate answer, he’ll admit to being bad.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
    CCozy and neropatti like this.
  16. HOW DO I TELL HIM THAT. You dont need to try to dodge it. It's super simple. I would tell him to go upwards so its harder to punish if u get stuck but then I realized that spider can jump INTO the web so it doesnt take kb, and just out-trade 95% of the kits. Especially chicken.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  17. Lucky me I can flame dash out of webs :p
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  18. Sometimes thats the truth of why you cant do something. Don't have the skill. Its like how Chicken is considered a noob slayer cuz chicken missile and noobs can't dodge. What would you tell a noob who complains about Chicken missile? Your not good enough, or get better.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
  19. Yeah, you can't tell me how to dodge the ability, because there is no reliable way. It's almost like that's been my main argument this entire time.
    Also, sure thing, next time I play against Spider, when I see them turn around for a Spin Web, I'll stand completely still. "You don't need to try to dodge it."

    @Bonse I knew what I was doing when I made that signature.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019
    CCozy, neropatti and Bonse like this.
  20. Is you pressing WASD trying? I thought pressing WASD was next to effortless but alright.
     
    Posted Jan 8, 2019

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