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Lack of Clarity Relating to Block Hunt

Discussion in 'Block Hunt' started by Grant138, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. Mineplex hasn't been very clear on what they consider valid evidence that someone is ESPing. We know that having multiple clips of someone beelining an infester in a random block pile can get someone banned for ESP (Which is fair evidence), but other than that we don't really know what evidence can get a player banned.

    Since we know that several of the RC members who haven't completed all of the achievements look at reports and decide punishments relating to ESP, it can make you wonder if they know what to look for when someone is ESPing. For example, if someone kills a player in a common infester spot can that get them banned? As state above, most RC members aren't active players of Block Hunt, so they most likely wouldn't know if an infester spot is common or not. Also what about memorization? All of the top hunter players memorize block piles, which can very easily look like ESP to someone with no experience, can that get someone banned?

    This next problem is an issue with Mineplex's report and appeal system in general, if your report or appeal gets denied the staff member doesn't explain why, sometimes it is obvious, but there are many gray areas Mineplex's rules which can be confusing if a player is trying to learn what evidence should be gathered for reports, or what punishable offense is justified or not.

    Lastly, It would be a good idea if a guide for gathering evidence was created, especially for games like Block Hunt, so players trying to report rule breakers know what kind of evidence to gather. Most of the questions asked here can only be answered by RC, but I thought it would be beneficial to publicly post this just incase anyone in the Block Hunt community has some insight into this topic as well.
     
    Posted Oct 3, 2020,
    Last edited Oct 3, 2020
    Dad, CZArkolan, crazygeek516 and 6 others like this.
  2. Yeah so about RC...

    It's clear that there are issues with who is punishing for ESP or not. No one on RC besides FuzzyJunior should be punishing for ESP because they don't even play the game. For collecting evidence, it's kinda known to not infest common infestor spots since good hunters regularly check them as leaper creating some hilariously suspicious moments. Problem with giving us everything that needs to be in a piece of evidence is that ESPers will start to try and circumvent those guidelines to avoid a ban and continue cheating. Killing regular blocks just isn't fair game considering f3+b and map memory, which the suspect could claim at any time and would be a huge gray area. Personally, this is what would stand out in non-infestor evidence:
    • Looking at a hider before they're in view (while watching them in first person spec)
    • Prefiring on hiders before them or their blue line is in view
    • Having a messy route around the map contrary to what most hunters follow: a specified leaper path that branches off and (sometimes) switches to radar
    • Interrupting patterns of how a certain row or pile of blocks is checked
    The report system for ESP is a mess. All RC should have access to reports, but only Fuzzy (possibly Arjun?) has access to view reports which means it needs to be forwarded THEN a decision made, THEN the RP messages back on whether or not RC made the decision to punish or not. I don't run into this issue much since Fuzzy usually takes care of my reports, but it can happen to others.

    I already addressed a public guideline from RC, so I'll just share what I suggest for infestor evidence and what others have said too:
    • Infest a random blockpile and NOT an infestor spot
    • Try to avoid being on top of the pile since you're more susceptible to a random arrow being fired for blockpile checking
    • Try to avoid infesting TNT since hunters can shred through the blocks quickly and it's hard to tell where they're actually aiming.
    • Avoid holding the magma cream since it produces light in Optifine Dynamic Lighting
    • Avoid infesting near the hunter in question because your sound could be heard and that could trigger them to look in your general vicinity.
    • Generally find an area out in the open where the hunter's approach can be seen. If you hide up in a house it's hard to tell where the hunter is looking until the last second.
    • If the hunter in question is someone known to be experienced, you're going to need more than one clip of them beelining you since sometimes they can happen accidentally:
    • If the hunter appears to be a random and the approach is beelined to you, one clip is enough, like shown (hunter in this video isn't a random but is blatant with their ESP):
    I can't help you much with chicken evidence since I'm personally really bad at it, so I'd contact @Mr_Ant87 since he's really good with determining ESP and recording with chicken evidence.

    Hope this reply gave you enough, and bare in mind that we have to go with what we have, and that sadly happens to be one RC qualified enough to punish for ESP.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
    Paladise, dualkong, Mr_Ant87 and 2 others like this.
  3. I suppose if I've been tagged in the context that @Jaek has it would be a disservice to not reply, so I'll give some tips for gathering chicken evidence.

    Unlike infesting, which largely relies on you sticking in a single spot and hoping that an ESPing/XRaying hunter doesn't bother/fails to hide their beelining, gathering chicken evidence relies on your ability to route. Specifically, what you're trying to do is to get them to follow you when it would otherwise be impossible/highly unlikely that they've been able to do so legitimately. The spot you choose to set your evidence up isn't particularly important, as long as it has ample routing opportunity, it is fairly well hidden (to make sure hunters do not see you until they are at your location), and you can abandon the spot without the hunter seeing you. Keep in mind to hide your blue viewline while doing so, it extends longer than a block long and makes it possible to see in instances where it wouldn't be possible without the use of F3+B. As opposed to infestor evidence, I encourage using hotspots (to an extent), as generally they do a good job at fulfilling the above 3 requirements.

    Now that you've got yourself set up, all you need to do is wait for the suspect to come by. Remember to not use fireworks, meows or otherwise draw attention to yourself, as this defeats the entire purpose of your goal. Once the person you're waiting for is here, wait for the right opportunity, and ditch the spot preemptively. Preemptively being the key word here, you want to be out of the spot and on the run before the ESPer/XRayer comes across where you originally were. This in theory should mean the hunter never knew you were hiding there, and they wouldn't notice your escape either (unless you botched it of course) if they were playing legitimately. Of course, a cheating hunter will know where exactly you went and choose to follow, which means your work isn't over yet. Now, your goal is to stay two steps ahead of the cheater as possible, keeping out of sight and continuously change your route to make it borderline impossible for the hunter to have followed you legitimately. Here, it is important to not involve extra hunters in your chase if possible, and to make your routing as unconventional as you can. Often, this means choosing the second or third best route rather than the objective best route, and if you choose to return to a section of the map you have previously traversed, take a different route. If you are predictable, the worth of your evidence will nosedive drastically. If you are playing as instant hider (something I highly recommend for gathering evidence of cheating), use your smoke bombs if the hunter gets a bit too close for your liking, and remember that using a smoke bomb is just as much a part of routing as any other. If you are skilled/lucky enough to kill the chasing hunter, you get the opportunity to repeat all of the above steps again (though remember to set yourself up away from the place where the hunter died). If the hunter you are trying to record is a radar hunter, killing them and relocating may be your only shot at obtaining evidence. Hopefully, this gives a fairly decent idea of how to acquire evidence of someone cheating via chicken routing. PM me if you have any further questions. And before I finish this point off, moving preemptively and unconventionally is not only a good strategy to catch ESPers and XRayers, it is a good strategy in general. Mastery of these two concepts will make you very hard to catch.

    As for the thread itself, I agree that it is ambiguous as to what RC does and doesn't count as valid evidence. It hasn't been that big of an issue for me as I like to be thorough with my evidence, but I do not doubt at all there have been situations where RC has decided legitimate hunters were cheating (I believe I actually have heard of a couple of these instances), and others where reports on obvious/known cheaters have been denied because RC doesn't believe the evidence to be adequate (and declines to explain why). I believe these mistakes have been largely caused by the teams relative lack of experience in the game as Grant has mentioned (I believe Fuzzy is the only member of the team who has notable recent experience playing the game), meaning that not only may they be unfamiliar with the specific ins and outs of Block Hunt, they may not recognise the minor details that separate a good hunter from a cheater. There should definitely be official guides on how to distinguish ESP from XRay from ghosting from legitimate gameplay, and how to determine what is adequate evidence. I suspect this latter suggestion would get vetoed, but I also believe RC should let a couple of trusted and experienced Block Hunt players to review ESP, XRay and ghosting evidence, as it's safe to say they know what to look for better than RC (nothing against RC of course, but their lack of Block Hunt experience hampers them too much in my opinion).

    Overall, +1. The concerns you've brought up are valid and I hope they are addressed.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
    CZArkolan, Im_Ken, Grant138 and 3 others like this.
  4. I agree that this is necessary in order to increase the amount of correct punishments while decreasing the amount of incorrect ones. Without proper knowledge of how legitimate hunters move around and look for hiders ("normal" hunter behavior), it is very easy to mistakenly believe someone is ESPing when they are legitimate (or that they are legitimate when they are ESPing). To add onto this point, those experienced enough in knowing what "normal" hunter behavior is can sometimes even differentiate between ghosting, modified entity models, and ESP/rays simply by seeing how the illegitimate Hunter is behaving. Like Ant, I believe that it is unlikely that RC will share evidence. However, in the hopes that such a team would at least be considered, I would like to list some pros and cons of this, as well as try to minimize the cons.

    Pros of Such a Team:

    1) Incorrect punishments will be less likely.

    2) Illegitimate players would be more likely to be banned.

    3) The community would be more confident in the accuracy of bans due to experienced players playing a role in them.

    4) With bans being more accurate, any illegitimate player will be banned faster, making the game more enjoyable. Additionally, experienced legitimate players will not have to be as scared of getting falsely banned. For example, there are infestor spots that are "common" and an experienced player may know a specific Hider likes to use said spot. Currently, killing that infestor may look like ESP to someone who does not know that it is, in fact, a common spot to check, making the Hunter too scared to kill said infestor without using radar.

    5) Increased punishment times. With bans being more accurate, the punishment could be bumped up to a different severity. Additionally, if the team strongly believes that the evidence points to ESP instead of ghosting, a hacking ban could be issued instead of a gameplay ban.

    Cons of Such a Team, and how to Minimize Them:

    1) Bias of the Members. This can be minimized by having the team be of a decent size, with both Hider and Hunter mains evaluating evidence. A specific high percentage of the team would have to agree that the evidence is valid in order for it to be accepted. This could likely be 2/3 or 3/4 depending on the size of the team.

    2) Reports not Being Anonymous. To address this, the person who made the report would not be seen by the team. The team members would be given only the evidence.

    3) Hate Toward the Team. This would be a bit harder to address. Having a secret roster of people on the team would not be good, as the community would have little trust in its evaluation of evidence. The team members definitely need to be known. They would simply have to agree that they know they may get hate if they choose that evidence is valid (or invalid) and the rest of the community disagrees.

    4) Disagreements Between RC and the Team. This could be addressed by requiring there to be some level of agreement between RC and the team. For example, if the team deems that evidence is valid, but RC is believes it is not, the report would be denied. If RC believes the evidence is valid, but the team does not, the report would be denied. If one of the two groups is iffy, but the other believes the evidence is valid, it would be accepted. To minimize the number of disagreements, there should be active discussion in which each side can share why it believes the evidence is valid/invalid.
     
    Posted Oct 5, 2020
  5. It honestly doesn't even matter much since the bans are so short. Doesn't matter how obvious evidence is, 1 ban is 4 hours and the second isn't much longer. The amount of effort I've been getting from a few players trying to record them is insane, which is really a shame because of how little it matters for how long they are punished. It's a waste of time and Mineplex doesn't care about our effort. There's a reason why the vast majority of leaderboard hunters either aren't legit or have boosted off of espers; it's too easy to get away with. It's too easy to make it look like you are legit but still do it. Most games on this server are like that, they are so broken and fairness is not the highest priority which clearly tells us that something isn't right. There are such easy solutions to many problems that the server simply will not solve. For example, it would be pretty convenient on our end if POV spectating was enabled for non-ranks. Then, we could use alts and spectate games in their POV (with Dynamic lighting, f3+b, and sound very high) to unsuspiciously record and report the people who will not be obvious in the presence of certain players. Not like we'll get those resources
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020

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