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Implemented Make Cross Teaming in 2 Team Games Bannable

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by Paladise, Oct 6, 2020.

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  1. This is a continuation to this thread.

    TO PREVENT CONFUSION: This thread is talking about gamemodes that have a total of 2 teams like Turf Wars, Death Tag, Champions, etc NOT SSM teams or anything like that.

    Currently, the rules for teaming / cross teaming are as follows:

    This means that none of the rules above apply for gamemodes that have 2 teams. I propose making cross-teaming in 2-team games punishable.

    Why:

    • It grants unfair advantage to one of the teams. Take for example a game where there is a 5 v 5. If one person completely throws the game, it creates a virtual 4 v 5. This is completely unfair to the team with 4 players. If we already have countless other rules to prevent trolling and teaming in other gamemodes, why should this be different?
    • Makes the rules more uniform. With games of 2 teams not having cross teaming bannable it confuses a lot of players, even a former moderator as showcased in my previous thread.
    Counterarguments and their counter-counter arguments:

    The only thing confusing is that in certain gamemodes cross teaming is bannable while in other it is. I have never seen any questions to pertaining what is cross teaming besides what the maximum team amount is, something which is not applicable in this situation since there is only two teams.

    Staff already often express judgement and leniency when punishing players. And most times it isn't hard to tell intention. Mab8400 goes into more detail here:

    Intention is pretty obvious a lot of the time. This is a huge thing that people like to go into denial for because they want to defend and hold onto this rule so they can get easy wins or loophole the game-play trolling rule. In one game which I don't know anything about, called Block Hunt, a lot of hunters will purposely help the hider team by defending, blowing up TNT paths (ladders, parkour, trees, etc) and without being afk, will INTENTIONALLY let the time run out so that their friends/the other team wins. How do I know they are doing that intentionally? Maybe because they are blowing kisses next to a chicken in a tree and shifting in place. But I guess the rules think that "oh I didn't see that player! I thought that was a normal NPC in a spot impossible for any normal mob to get to!" No. Logic=False. In Champions, I played for about 2 weeks straight and I saw what seemed to be a corrupt gamemode full of people who literally do not fight at all and just shift next to their friends while they watch you get 2v1ed. If intention is questionable in a 2 team game, why would it be any different in a solo gamemode? With the logic based on the rules, 2 people fighting one person in a game of SG is considered teaming. Where is the intent there though? What if they "just happen" to not see eachother and also attack the same person, while simultaneously not hitting eachother the entirety of the time? There is no intent there right? No. It's clear what is happening based on this thing called logic. Very very important variable in any situation. The same exact reasoning should be used in any single gamemode. However, this doesn't mean that a player who is afk or coincidentally attacks the same player should just be banned instantly. Extensive footage or recording of gameplay should be collected in order to actually observe what's happening.

    I agree that some substantial amount of evidence would have to be collected before a punishment would be issued to reduce the amount of false bans.

    After asking RC once again why the previous thread was marked not planned, I received this reply:

    For the person throwing the game I agree it isn't beneficial. But you know what else it isn't beneficial for? The rest of the team. If one person is teaming because all their friends are on the opposite team, it hinders the complete other team. Let's look at Death Tag. If a person on the chasers team is running around in circles not chasing anyone, they hinder the rest of the Chasers team making the game boring and stale. Death Tag relies on cooperation, and having only 1 or 2 chasers actually chasing is one of the main reasons it has died. I have suggested multiple times in the GI discord ways to combat this, but the general consensus now is that a rule change is the best option. Furthermore, it has become obvious to me that this occurs in every 2 team game.

    Xukuwu also elaborates:

    It's also not exactly about "benefiting yourself" it's about ruining the game for everyone else. If I body block my friend as a chaser in DT, I am ruining the game for the other humans, as they have less/no chance of winning the game. I am also ruining it for the other chasers, as I am preventing them from killing that specific human (which is their objective).

    The purpose of teaming isn't solely to give yourself a better chance of winning. It can also be to help other people win or prevent other people from winning/having a fair game. While yes, a few of these things do come under Gameplay Trolling, a lot don't.


    Hey there!

    After reading through this I can say that I cannot agree more! I do think it would not be fair to be solo queuing for lets say, Turf Wars and you end up in a game with a bunch of people that are all friends and they are all cross teaming. It would be the absolute worst if the team you are on just decides to throw and let the other team win giving you a loss with pretty much no chance of avoiding it. It just is not right. There are dozens of more examples or situations that I can give that have happened or probably will happen one day. Wonderful idea! Hope this gets changed +1

    too bad when i mentioned this in threads I made it was ignored and seen as a joke. i wonder what caused people to be so agreeable now? I literally made several posts on why block hunt is such an easy game to win as a hider because you can just have friends steal the hunter queue and be friendly the entire game, which means you can't lose. Essentially stat boosting that isn't against the rules; since there are so many loopholes, like Xukuwu said, you can bypass the teaming rule in solo games by avoiding each other and putting a big effort into making it look like you aren't teaming, kill all other players, and then throw the game by "accidentally jumping off a cliff" or "accidentally dropping a sword or throwing tnt on your feet" for whoever you want to boost/get wins. This happens all the time in SG, Bacon Brawl, Skywars, and Super Spleef. Just way too easy to bypass.

    I actually agree, some of the rules can be pretty vague at face value, and you have to come up with certain scenarios in your head to really understand some of them

    Playing champs without a party is bad enough getting clapped in a 3v5 fighting 5 skilled players, but its worse when people on your team don't help you fight. Many times I see players on opposite teams just chilling out or fist 1v1ing.

    Agreed, I tend to get really aggravated when your team isn't helping you and teaming with the other team. The whole point is that your team works together to go against the other team. This rule would make it helpful for others that have no help from there teammate and actually put up a challenge.


    If this thread does get denied, I would like there to be a different denial reason. This is one of the more easier fixes on Mineplex's end and will bring back more positive experiences and hopefully some of the older playerbase. Mineplex isn't the same server as it used to be before, and the same practices won't work now. If Mineplex wants to regain its former playerbase, it needs to actually start appealing to the playerbase.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Susie, mab8400, Fusafez and 3 others like this.
  2. I honestly don't understand why the rules committee is so content on keeping Cross-Teaming allowed. I'm guessing there is something they aren't telling us, because we get the same explanation for this idea being denied every time, and I just don't understand it. If they really have some good reason for keeping this allowed, then I would love to hear it, but until then, I hope this idea is implemented. +1
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
  3. yeah guys this is totally fair!!!!!
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
  4. In all instances this can be punished as Team Trolling or Game Stalling. -1
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Anna ♡ likes this.
  5. Only in certain instances. Most cases, it isn't.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 6, 2020
  6. I'm going to be talking in a sense of BH here since "cross-teaming" is a common "issue" in it.

    Instead of trying to make changes to the rules and change the way people play and enjoy the game (for some it's just being a hunter and running around with the hiders), change the game itself to not support that. One idea I've heard, which I agree with, should give suffocation damage to anyone inside a hunter body for more than an allotted time (~3-5 seconds), which will make body blocking far less of an issue that happens today.

    You can't cross team in a game with two teams, lol, that's like saying that you're going to die in BL on purpose so the other team wins. Do you really want to punish people for playing the game with their friends the way they want? Again, I totally understand the issue with body blocking since it actually hurts the other hunters, just not doing anything or standing near other hiders shouldn't be punishable. You can't have a strong grip on how someone wants to play a game, and if they want to just chill in a tree with their hider friends (without body blocking), then that's completely fine. Another hunter can just show up and kill them. No big deal. Let people have fun instead of trying to puppet them into doing certain things for the "object" of the game.

    So if I hub and rejoin I should be banned for trolling since it puts the team I was on as a disadvantage? What if I want to die to water damage and hunt? That's hurting my original team so it must be trolling!

    When there is a gameplay issue, the #1 priority should be patching the game to prevent it instead of giving players the option to do it at the risk of a ban.

    Here's the issue that I have with the whole idea of this thread: you're wanting to punish people for doing the equivalent of leaving the game or afking and it's just overall a bad idea to try and force people to play the game how you want them to play it.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    nathan., ArizonaTooHot and dualkong like this.
  7. Yes that could be a solution to helping in Block Hunt, but there are no clear ways for other gamemodes. Additionally, while this could be a possible solution, keep in mind that means Block Hunt would have to be updated. Something that make a couple of months to push, while a rule change is much faster to get pushed.

    Yep I would like to see that being punishable. If they want to play with their friends they can just join the same team or spectate the game. There is no reason for a game to start off as a 7 v 8 or whatever the case may be just so one player can have fun with their friends. While this is sometimes not a big issue in Block Hunt, it is a big issue in Dominate. Due to the hard cap the game will likely always be a 5 v 4, giving a huge disadvantage to one of the teams. If they want to "chill", they can just spectate the game. No reason to waste a perfectly good slot that can be used to let someone who actually wants to play, play.

    I believe staff should use their intuition on whether something should be bannable. If they are intentionally teaming to make the other players have a bad experience then it should be punishable. The rules would have to be a bit more flexible in games where the two teams aren't really considered "teams". So in your cases it wouldn't be, but then again, if it were to cross the line to body blocking it should be. Other games like Minestrike and Turf Wars are much more straightforward.

    I have already tried discussing several ideas in the GI discord and each idea has gotten denied which I understand. If I had an actually good idea to prevent teaming then I would have already proposed that, but there isn't any clear ones.

    I'm not sure what you mean here? I'm wanting to punish players who obviously want to frustrate some players. You can look at Mab's video for more clarification. In that case, they could've just spectated the game instead of stealing someone's queue. And while there is a solution for that once again, there isn't for other gamemodes.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Susie and Young_Inventor like this.
  8. no
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Jaek likes this.
  9. Pretty much everything that is said here could work for an MPS, since people can play however they want. I could care less what people do in private servers since that is up to them, but in a public server, it shouldn't exist. If you watch the video I put above, you would realize that I could just boost an infinite amount of wins without doing anything, since the incentive of the game is simply too flawed. Obviously this doesn't happen literally every single game 100% of the time, but it used to happen a horrid amount and if you played during early this year you would've witnessed what I call "boost lobbies" which basically are just a group of like 20 friendlies who don't fight and boost wins. If this type of crap is going to happen, do it in an MPS where it doesn't effect the competitive behaviors (stats, or people wanting to win) or gameplay of a few players who are not part of the game. It's a great way to make people hate the game and quit the server because of a flawed ideology that isn't being dealt with because of a permanent definition of the term "cross teaming" and how Mineplex somehow created the term cross-teaming as if it is some sort of unchangable rule. Your thoughts on "people can't be forced to play a certain way" would lead me to believe that a group of teamers in SG should be allowed; since they can play with their friends how they want. The BL example is actually potential stat boosting if done on purpose for a high quantity of instances. Your example with dying in water is actually a problem that happened a long time ago where 10 parties would jump in the water or die to a cactus and boost the person who got on the hunter team. Obviously if 1 person does it, it probably isn't that big of a deal; since the hider team is much larger to begin with. The hunter team on the other hand is limited initiailly with a set ratio. If there are 2 hunters and 1 is being friendly, the game is affected much more since that is literally half of the team. If people are not going to hunt, then they can just sit in spawn or do something other than trying to make it look like you checked an area, block someone's view, or block potential bow shots, which can affect other hunters' judgements and actions when trying to win the game.

    However, I strongly agree with what you said about changing the game's features rather than the rules; if there are parameters to make it impossible for this to happen, then obviously that is a better option. But I don't really think there are many, since they are player-decided actions. Not to mention the fact that Mineplex doesn't do much when it comes to making games fair and/or balanced. Which throws out those hopes of getting the necessary changes made.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  10. Note: I'm talking about cross-teaming in Skywars (Solo)

    I'd agree with this just because I get double teamed a lot in Skywars Solo on both Java and Bedrock and die. On the Java I can't even get to middle because once I bridge over someone uses a ender pearl and throws me into the void. Once on Java I got double teamed and both had full diamond and this other dude helped me but we lost. (I wasn't teaming with the kid that was kind enough to help me). On bedrock I'm fine with two people attacking me at the same time because I use my simple tactics and strategies to smack them. Sometimes I say in chat "Reporting you for cross-teaming." But I never report them because either I don't have time to record them teaming, I am to lazy to go through a huge process of reporting the player, and Mineplex never makes a big deal with cross-teamer's of what I know.

    If this goes into consideration by Forums Management or other staff, I would give a +1.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
    Paladise likes this.
  11. You never learn and can't take no as an answer can you? At this points it's getting utterly ridiculous.. This idea has been rejected by RC 3 times in the last 3 months and will just continue to get rejected no matter how much you keep making the same thread over and over again.

    All your new threads do is bring your arguments from the old thread and compile all the replies into one, they don't make a difference and don't make the arguments against the idea any less true. You seriously need to stop.

    I'm not going to bother giving my full reply because I feel like it's stupid repeating myself to someone who's just making a duplicate thread every week about the same issue whether it's denied or not, which is extremely stupid..

    If you can get evidence of someone teaming on your in solo skywars, you can report them at http://mineplex.com/reports as that is already punishable. This is a thread that is suggesting that we ban people who avoid fighting each other in teams like Block Hunt. It's been denied before and will continue to be denied.

    If you're getting cross teamed on in team skywars (or other games like that, team sg for example), and the team doesn't exceed two players, that's fine. If it does exceed to players, record and report as I said above and if you provide sufficient evidence, they will get banned.
     
    Posted Oct 6, 2020
  12. Hi there,

    This idea was denied a little bit ago and thus we won't be reviewing it again. If you want to discuss it further please DM me or another RC member.

    IT will be here soon to lock the thread.
     
    Posted Oct 7, 2020
    Rilau, Nolawn and Anna ♡ like this.
  13. Hi there,

    As FuzzyJunior mentioned above, RC will not be reviewing this idea again, meaning it will remain denied. With this in mind, I will be locking this thread and marking it as not planned.

    Thread Locked >> Idea Not Planned
     
    Posted Oct 7, 2020
    Rilau, Anna ♡ and Nolawn like this.
  14. Hey again!

    There actually has been an update to this proposed idea. RC rediscussed over this idea recently and has decided to now make hindering your team in 2 team games in anyway punishable. I've made this update reply to all of your other threads (just to let you know).

    With this in mind, I will be remarking this thread with the "Implemented" tag as well as lock this thread.

    Thanks again.

    Thread Locked >> Idea Implemented
     
    Posted Oct 22, 2020
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