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Network ban staff members who cheat

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by gzen, Aug 1, 2020.

?

Thoughts

  1. Ok

  2. no

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  1. And they'll likely get caught and shortly banned, they can't continuously continue to play and cheat on alts, ruining more peoples games.

    Some people don't think, you don't simply just "decide" to mess up and start cheating, especially not when you sit there and ban people for hacking. There is a need to do that, they need to learn from their mistakes and learn that being in a position of power and abusing that to make people believe that you're trustworthy, just to simply break that trust and do it yourself isn't okay. What people don't understand is that players are told that staff members are trustworthy people, we should at the very least trust them to keep our games clean from cheaters, and that includes themselves. A 30-day punishment for someone who was in a position of power and was tasked with keeping games clan is definitely not sufficient, a network ban, or even a permanent ban at that would be the better punishment.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
    Mr_Ant87 and ItsFree like this.
  2. Perhaps there could be some different solution to all of this. I agree there should be something more severe than the current system. It might not even be perma/network ban but something entirely different. For ex-staff members being harassed over their actions, they could always block people or report them if possible. I don't think it's valid point for why we should issue network ban over everything else.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
    scarlet and zytrus like this.
  3. do you have any thoughts on what should be done in that case?
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 1, 2020
  4. I think the perma ban for in-game/forums would be enough. I don't really think it would be needed to ban them from MPD too as that's the platform where their actions have been reflect the least.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
    gzen likes this.
  5. they arent allowed to
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 1, 2020
    JAKE/// and ItsFree like this.
  6. And they learned from their mistakes. They will be banned for the correct time, they will earn humiliation of being a hypocrite and not trustworthy, and demoted. That’s enough punishment, in my opinion. Even though the staff member hacked, they were still someone that did their job and a player can go to for help. It’s not like they are a terrible person because they hacked. They just made a mistake and will get appropriately punished.


    I know but they can still play on alts, nothing is preventing them to haha
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  7. Heyyy

    first off, i do be having mixed emotions about this :// the way they be banning hackers like its nothing then hop on wurst themselves isabit ewww. If a staff member is cheating, it completely goes against the values they volunteered to represent. As modal players of the server, it is concomitant that they ensure that the game is fair and just. It is literally their duty to be integral and trustworthy to the server. As a result of this, when found to be cheating. It goes against everything they PERSONALLY VOLUNTEERED KNOWINGLY THEMSELVES to do for the server. It is 100% justified that due to this, they should receive a NWB. It's pretty astonishing that someone even needs to argue this is beyond wrong.

    But, BUT, whilst they would have been seriously hypocritical, they still did an abundance for the server. They WOULD have banned hackers that were hacking, despite having done it themselves, they would have been comforting to community members and despite cheating, they would have portrayed themselves as kind members of the server nevertheless.

    It's pretty difficult to say 100% what should happen. I'm not sure if a traditional NWB would be suitable, but I definitely agree the punishment should be much more severe that it would for a regular hacker. I only say this because I know from personal experience appealing a NWB is a much, much harder process to be accepted than a regular appeal. Perhaps if a NWB was issued with less strict appeal guidelines, that would be ideal, but the effort one would have to go through raises the question of whether or not it's efficient for the server.

    edit:

    NB: the way they would basically be humiliated through the shaming they'd receive is also a huge punishment in itself, I don't know if I'd call this a mitigating factor, but I'd for sure keep it in mind...
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  8. whats preventing them to is the fact that if it is found to be them that alt account will be removed from the server whereas with a regular ban that wouldn't happen
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 1, 2020
    JAKE/// and ItsFree like this.
  9. Yeah but they can still do it, they will probably use an account that they don’t care about. Especially if they have many alts, there is no way they are just gonna “stop”.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  10. in that case, at least they wouldn't be playing on a reputable account where they have the benefit of leveling and getting cosmetics. they would just be treated as another hacker which is better than having them come back and develop some sort of standing with the server
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 1, 2020
    ItsFree likes this.
  11. But they have to worry about getting banned, they can't just continue to do it without worrying and continue ruining peoples games.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
    ItsFree likes this.
  12. Bruh lmfao. If they hack once, chances are their gonna do it again. And, do we really want hypocrital staff running our server? I don't think so. Plus, its not a 'mess up' its intentionally breaking the rules by CHOICE. Not a mess up. Rule breaking.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  13. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a Network ban, but I believe a permanent ban would be better suited. As many have mentioned, when you are a staff member and caught cheating you are already subject to:

    a) A verrrrry public demotion
    b) Ridicule/Embarassment
    c) The appropriate ban length
    d) Harassment (no one deserves to be harassed imo, it is an unfortunate reality of the situation)

    I agree with everything said here. As a staff member, our main jobs are to give good customer support & uphold the rules here at Mineplex. The hypocrisy involved in cheating whilst a staff member looks bad on the server, and a permanent ban is a quick & efficient way to solve that.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
    scarlet, Anna. and xGetRekted like this.
  14. Network banning isn’t going to stop them from hacking. That’s literally the point I’m trying to say, I know they are going to keep hacking since there is no good reason for them to stop (if they are that type of person). Even though they might be hypocritical in the ways of hacking, they can still be very helpful to Mineplex, whether it’s subteam work, assisting players, anything. And yeah, it’s not a mess up, that was a poor choice of wording on my part.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  15. I'm going to have to be the odd one out here and disagree.

    Staff members are given no special treatment over regular players, whether you'd like to admit it or not. For example, I can't filter bypass just because I'm a staff member and expect not to get punished/demoted over it. Likewise, I can't hack and expect nothing to happen to me. This is your logic: staff members are the people who uphold the rules of the server and are responsible for making sure everyone follows the rules; it would be hypocritical if a staff member broke one of said rules. You're absolutely right about that. However, by this same logic, you inadvertently suggest that staff members should be network banned no matter the severity of their rule-breaking. For example, if I bypass a severity 2 word in chat purposely, I will (likely) get demoted for it. But does that mean I deserve to be network banned? In my opinion, no.

    So, like I said in the beginning, staff members are given no special treatment over regular players. If we break the rules, we get punished, just like regular players do. What you're not realizing is that this also means that the punishment is the same if we break the rules. In fact, it is a little extra:
    1. Immediate demotion with no dispute
    2. Humiliation
    3. No chance of reinstatement (Mod+), must go through the entire trial again
    4. Harassment
    We've seen the things I listed above occur pretty often lately, I'd say.
    I'd now like to respond to a few of your comments.
    With this logic, let's look at regular hackers. Regular hackers do tend to ruin your games, right? And if they hack once, chances are they'll do it again, right? So does that mean we should NWB everyone who hacks? The answer is obviously no.
    Shouldn't this apply to all hackers then?

    Overall, this idea simply seems too emotionally charged for me. Yes, staff members are the representatives of the server, but there is so much more that goes into a staff member and especially being demoted from your position than can even be conceived by a community member. Staff members who break the rules deserve to be punished for their actions, just like a normal player. Their punishment is a ban and a demotion with no chance of reinstatement. Thanks for your idea. -1.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  16. I would be alright with this happening. Like others above have said, as staff it is our job to both enforce the rules of the network and uphold them as well. If a staff member is caught cheating I believe a more severe punishment than regular is justified. Not only is this entirely hypocritical for staff to cheat, but it is also a) easier for staff to get away with closet cheating under the guise that they are trusted staff, b) much more difficult for players to give legitimately based accusations against potentially cheating staff because of the position of power they are in, and c) something Mineplex should be absolutely heavily discouraging, so that the very few staff who may decide to cheat are faced with larger consequences going into it rather than just the usual ban length. Thank you for suggesting this, and I am personally in agreement with this. +1 from me.
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  17. I'm only suggesting they get network banned if they cheat in-game.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 1, 2020
    Mitchy likes this.
  18. The bottom part of this response is actually pretty accurate. There's no point in bringing a possibility of recurrent hacking specifically onto staff when in truth it's more likely an average hacker will come back to hack again.

    However, regarding the top-most section of your response, I'd have to question it a little. You mentioned that, if following the same premise, a staff member should also get NWB'd for a chat offense. Whilst I can see where the logic came from, I'd say that hacking is probably not as severe as a case of GR. As a result of this, of course, it's ridiculous to NWB a staff member for GR. Whilst I see where you're coming from, the reason that it is suggested that a hacking ban should change to an NWB is that cheating, as a staff member, is far more severe and should, therefore, receive a leveled up punishment, per se. Whilst yes, a staff member who violates a chat guideline should be punished more severely, an NWB is too drastic of a 'level-up' than a mute is.
    As for your idea about staff members being treated the same. Whilst yes, rules still apply to both staff members as they do regular community members. You stated yourself staff are expected to uphold the rules. As a result of this, cheating goes against what they're supposed to uphold. Whilst regular community members should equally sustain this system, it's different because it is a duty and requirement as a staff member, a role that you'd volunteer to do. So whilst, yes punishments are the same for both peoples, it is by default a given that you should be less expected to hack as a staff member than as a community member, and it's likely for this reason that it would be valid for such NWB ideas to be put in place. As it is more severe and unexpected when a staff member is caught.

    Finally, I've seen this a lot and it's to do with the accompanying humiliation, public embarrassment, and shame that you'd already receive as a closeting staff member.
    Whilst yes, this in itself would seem like enough punishment. It's just inherently an escorting side effect with getting caught closeting as a staff member. It's not an official punishment issued directly to the staff member by proper authorities it's just a surmised response by the community itself, and whilst it is seemingly a sufficient punishment in itself, it is, of course, unofficial and from what I know (this could be wrong, you're more likely to know more about this than I) the staff team try to eliminate the shaming that occurs toward people on similar situations on the network.

    I really don't mean any shade with this I actually stan u so much but like I'm seeing this a lot and I thought I'd address general with some method of rebuttal. No hate <3
     
    Posted Aug 1, 2020
  19. You are correct, regular hackers do ruin our games, and I can tell you right now that I do believe Mineplex should bring back Permanent Bans for hacking, as they used to have. A hacker can never be permanently banned anymore, and as a result of that, the only thing stopping them from doing it is the wait between being banned and then coming back and doing it again.

    However, one thing you fail to understand and acknowledge is that staff members are there to protect us from this. Staff members are there to ban these cheaters and we're supposed to be able to trust the staff team to do that for us. If members of the staff team are out there cheating themselves in games that we want to have fun it, why should we trust them to deal with other hackers that are also doing the same thing?

    I've given my opinion on the punishments given to hackers plenty of times before, and I will continue to say that I did not and will not ever support the discontinuation of permanent bans for hacking. When permanent bans were removed, alongside pretty much every single hacking ban in existence, back at the start of 2018 (I think), there was a huge community backlash, no one liked the fact that hackers would no longer be removed from the network permanently, they'd just have to wait 30-40 days, and then come back and hack with the same account, whilst also hacking on plenty of other alts at the same time.

    My personal opinion, if people that take on a voluntary role to help out the server can't be trusted to follow the own rules that they're punishing other players for, they should not be allowed to have continued access to that service, they should be completely removed and denied from reentering the community.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    Klobby, Jaek, Mitchy and 1 other person like this.
  20. Hmm I'm a bit torn on this. While I do think cheating as a staff member should warrant more severe punishments, I don't really think a NWB is the correct solution. Network Bans are generally only reserved for continued community disruption or people who are otherwise active threats to the community. Theoretically, once a staff member has been demoted, punished in-game, and (I would assume) unable to regain their position as staff, they can't really be considered a threat.

    Some people have brought up the fact that they would most likely keep cheating, but that really isn't a valid point in this discussion, since the same goes for every single cheater we ban. I really doubt the people going on 40+ alts to blatantly cheat are all disgraced ex-staff members.

    I want to make it clear that I don't support any sort of cheating--especially on the staff team. Frankly, I wish everyone caught hacking got a permanent ban instead of 30-40 days. However, I just don't think this fits the purpose of a Network Ban. Is it really worth the effort of keeping someone off the forums, Discord, and game on all accounts if they are no longer a (known) threat to the community? I do get the aspect of them making the community look bad, though, so I feel like a permanent game ban or something similar would make more sense.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
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