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Network ban staff members who cheat

Discussion in 'General Idea Discussion' started by gzen, Aug 1, 2020.

?

Thoughts

  1. Ok

  2. no

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  1. At first I thought this was pretty harsh, but reading through the responses I have realised that it is anything but harsh. I feel like maybe just a permanent in-game ban may be more fair than a network ban, but i'm fine with either since all staff members know the consequences for hacking and definitely should not hack on the server.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    SpitefulNick likes this.
  2. I can see why it's harmful to Mineplex's image if a staff member cheats, and we can only hope they don't where possible, but personally I feel that punishments being much more severe for staff members than normal community members is a bit harsh.. They should be treated similarly to a community member in this instance in my opinion, and be banned with a chance to appeal. If unfortunately a staff member did cheat, the likelihood is that to actually have been staff they probably did quite a lot to help the community, and their work shouldn't be undone because they made a mistake (not to say it was accidental). I do agree it's a more serious offence for someone who enforces the rules to break them, but a NWB is just too harsh for this offence imo. A permanent ban would prevent them from hacking on Mineplex again (at least on that account), which seems like an appropriate punishment.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020,
    Last edited Aug 2, 2020
  3. From what I know, this is a very rare occurrence. When it does happen though, I think that a demotion and a regular ban is probably enough of a punishment. A demotion for obvious reasons, and then a ban that would be issued for hacking. However, I definitely see where you're coming from. It is quite hypocritical to cheat as a staff member, and I can definitely see why some people may think that a network ban is warranted. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure on this one, and it's good to see other people's opinions.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  4. I mean.. Staff hacking isn't cool at all don't get me wrong and back when I was staff I didn't see anyone do it tbh

    But network ban? I believe they should be demoted, maybe be given a recruitment blacklist and face the same punishment as a hacker. They're still people, staff or not. Network ban seems a bit over the top and kinda unfair
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    scarlet likes this.
  5. I'm going to have to agree with @SomeRqndomName here. Staff members are still people and they should receive the same punishment as a normal player would. It shouldn't make any difference that they're a staff member. Perhaps a more viable option would be an application blacklist along with an extended ban in game instead of going all out on a network ban. Using any type of blacklisted modifications to your advantage is a pretty severe offence, yes, but what else would result in a network ban? General hacking is sev2 and Movement hacking is sev3 so let's focus on those severities. Of course, there aren't any other gameplay offences that are those severities so I'll substitute it for chat offences and make the network ban a permanent mute. Filter Bypass is sev1 and sev2 depending on how bad the word was. If it were sev2, would the 7 day mute go to a full permanent mute? I don't think it would so why should it be any different for hacking?
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    scarlet, SomeRqndomName and chrvssy like this.
  6. At first when I read this the Network ban seemed a little harsh for a staff member hacking but then I realized that they are basically a hypocrite because they are banning hackers when in fact they are hacking as well. Also, it is extremely unprofessional and it puts a bad image on the Mineplex Staff Team. I feel like a Network ban would be a just punishment rather than just a demotion and a hacking offense ban.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    Loofii likes this.
  7. Hey!

    I'm gonna have to disagree with this for the most part. If we are Network Banning staff members who hacked, then why should trainees who have decided to hack in the past 1,3 or 5 months be able to apply? In my opinion, to be completely banned from a platform, in which the community knew you pretty well and you probably will still have a good amount of friends is pretty harsh. I think a demotion and ban is plenty, and maybe if they are seen hacking again then it's a different story.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  8. Heyyo~

    I find this a bit excessive in my personal opinion, since removing their tags and a regular ban seem quite reasonable. I understand their responsibilities within the server; they are representing Mineplex by being part of the staff team, however, the players on Mineplex also represent the server. For example, if the server was riddled with hackers, no one would continue to play the server. So, I just don't understand why a harsher punishment is needed.

    If we're going into this rabbit hole, I think we should bring up the topic of IP Banning and general NWBs. By this logic, players should also be held to the same level of punishment.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    ItsFree likes this.
  9. maybe they shouldnt be able to apply
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 2, 2020
  10. Although I do understand the magnitude of such an action, I still am against this, as I personally think the current system is sufficient. Here’s why:

    Perhaps the demotion and the ban aren’t enough, sure. However, there’s so much more, such as the social/public reaction to his punishment. They will be widely looked-down upon, everywhere they go they will be shunned, and likely, they can’t find one place where they’re not going to be socially ostracized within this community. In my opinion, that, is punishment enough.

    Good idea though, nontheless!
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  11. Hiya!

    I definitely see where you are coming from with this idea, but unfortunately I’m going to have to disagree with this idea. Being a teenager, it’s okay to have mess ups, and lots of staff members are still teens! If the punishment of closeting as a staff member results in a network ban, staff members won’t learn from their mistakes! I believe a sturdy punishment is being demoted, and receiving a standard ban. It just seems more realistic in my opinion. I definitely know where everyone is coming from who approve of the idea. Thanks for sharing your idea!

    Chao,
    Brook
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020,
    Last edited Aug 2, 2020
    Deleted User and ItsFree like this.
  12. i wouldnt mind if players got network and IP banned either, I think punishments this severe would be much better for Mineplex as an image and stop hackers from coming back. That isn’t the issue in my post, however, it is that staff members who are in a higher position of power and have the ability to enforce punishments be dealt with on a more severe according. The argument that they were ‘helping the server’ in some sense so they deserve more leniency makes no sense at all imo. They willingfully cheated and exploited the position they were in. The duties they may or may not have worked through could have been accomplished by any other member of that same team if given the time, and as a result, deserve a worsened punishment than community members would receive.

    Also, community members don’t represent a server to the amount staff members do by any means.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 2, 2020
  13. The idea that because they will be shamed by the community is simply more fuel for the reason why they should be network banned. To save them from the trouble of seeing it at all and to prevent them from further community exploitation where they are known to be manipulative, a network ban would save the hassle for everyone.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 2, 2020
  14. Hey!

    After reading all the different replies, it honestly could go either way. If they hack they of course are going to get demoted, probably be humiliated by the community, and be banned. Even if they do not get NWB and get banned for the right amount of time when they come back the community will most likely still come after them, which I think is enough for them. Staff are normal people just like everyone else. I know them doing that is not them doing it on accident but even then I think they should just be banned for the right amount of time. I would get if a staff member was higher in power and hacked then that would be a different story, but for someone who is not I do not think it is necessary.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  15. Sure, staff members have the ability to enforce punishments and rules; however, just like in reality, no one is above or below the law. There is no if, when, who, whatever, everyone is treated equally under the rules.
    I never said anything regarding leniency for being a staff member, I was simply stated that they should be treated equally compared to a community member. As I stated above, no one is above or below the rules.
    So you're essentially saying any community member could be a staff member... and every staff member is a community member. Why should they be network banned for something that anyone else could do? Also, there are no permissions that staff members have that could allow them to hack undetected. Yes, they can punish players but there is nothing they're abusing for them to be network banned.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    iMedia and ItsFree like this.
  16. First of all, Mineplex don't IP ban on the server. Personally, I think an NWB is a bit harsh for hacking. Let's say a staff member was caught hacking they would be demoted and banned and I think that's punishment enough. They would also most probably be blacklisted from applying.

    Like @xSebbie said staff members aren't robots we're humans and anyone can hack including a staff member. Why should staff be NWB if they hack? Yes, we represent the community but people in the community should know that "good" staff member doesn't thack. NWB staff members that make a mistake (hacking mistake) is like saying "ALL ETERNAL PLAYERS GET PERMANENTLY BANNED IF THEY HACK" or "ALL IMMORTALS WHO ARE CAUGHT HACKING WILL GET A NWB". It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why should staff members be treated differently from any other hacker?
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  17. i've posted earlier sharing my opinions but I thought I would make a follow up post

    whether we may like it or not, staff members break rules every now and then. while I agree that some rules that are broken may warrant a softer punishment, closeting as a staff member doesn't. we shouldn't be focusing on the possible good the staff member has done while their actions (in this case closeting) go directly against that. staff have been network banned before, for different reasons of course, and despite all the great things they may have done for the server, they still made the mistake and still got punished. what I'm trying to say is, staff members shouldn't be given a softer punishment or thought of in a more positive light just because of the fact that they've done work that is, mind you, expected of staff members. that is honestly irrelevant information because the mistake was still made. if they truly were a good person making an honest mistake, it wouldn't be with closeting.

    on the surface, closeting might not sound that bad, but it truly is a filthy thing to do if you're a staff member. people closet to gain an advantage, to have an edge over their opponent that isn't directly obvious. because of this, it can at times be difficult to punish for such things. this is even more true for staff members, as they are given the benefit of the doubt because of how much trust we put into them.

    there is no doubt in my mind that staff members who do closet willingly take advantage of this trust put into them, knowing fully well that accusations against them will be harder to prove. it is for this reason, this large betrayal of trust, that gives this action such a weight to it.

    but it's not only that. it blows my mind that a person who, for possibly months, spends their time punishing hackers and enforcing the rules, can then begin to closet hack in games. it's disgusting. as people have said, not only is it extremely hypocritical but it really does make the server look bad. these are the key representatives of mineplex, if they can't stop themselves from doing such a thing as closet hacking, something that they know more than anyone else is wrong, why should they be allowed back on the server? it is not just a simple screw up, it is a choice made with malicious intentions, meant to exploit the trust they were given as a staff member.

    I may be the only one that feels this way, but I don't care. it takes a truly messed up person to go against everything they stand for and closet cheat. that is not a simple mistake and one that should not be forgiven. I cannot stress that enough. the current punishment for doing such a thing is weak, there is nothing to say they won't just return and do the same thing. they aren't sorry, they are sorry they got caught, and will likely just continue to closet. a stronger punishment makes sure that staff themselves are less likely to do such a thing, while also giving those who do closet what they deserve.

    alright, that's the end of my rant.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
  18. I completely understand where you're coming from, and to an extent I agree. Hacking (especially closeting) as a staff member is unacceptable and should be punished harshly. As a staff member, you're representing the server, and breaking the rules you're meant to enforce is not something that should be done ever. However, I do agree that a network ban is a bit harsh. Network bans are distributed only for the most severe offenses; leaking staff documents is one of them. While I definitely agree that hacking as a staff member is severe, I don't think it should warrant a network ban. This has been said already in this thread, but maybe instead of a ban length equivalent to the hack used, the staff member should be permanently banned. I think this is severe enough and isn't as drastic as a network ban. I personally believe that network bans should only be given out in the most severe cases, and yes while hacking as a staff member is horrible, I really don't think it's worthy of a network ban.
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    scarlet likes this.
  19. First of all, I only stated I wouldn't mind them doing so.


    Hacking should not be considered a 'mistake' by any means. The staff members' actions in cheating had to have been intentional, it's not like they had some malware installed in their computer that made them cheat. No, staff members are much different from eternals or immortals. Staff members have earned the respect and trust of their colleagues as well as the community. Betraying this trust, exploiting their position, setting a bad example for players, and painting a bad image of the server as a whole warrants a much more severe punishment than that of a community member. It's frankly surprising that I would have to compare the actions of a community member to those of staff.

    That was more in regards to another post here that I forgot to quote sorry haha

    No, I specified it had to be a member of that same team who could accomplish those duties.

    because they're staff (refer to my response on iMedia's post)
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 2, 2020
  20. I agree with getting any cheating staff nwb
    Also fine with them not getting nwb so that they can be ruthlessly clowned on tho
     
    Posted Aug 2, 2020
    SpitefulNick likes this.
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