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New Hacking Punishments

Discussion in 'Bedrock Ideas' started by _wxrd_, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Hey guys! New idea here coming from a Bedrock player! :)

    So, as we all know, Bedrock is infested with hackers. Every other game out there is too, however Bedrock is almost like a safe-haven for hackers. Maybe because it is easy? Maybe because they have lots of servers to hack on? Maybe because the punishments aren't that bad?

    That's what this post is going to discuss. The punishments for hackers.

    I feel as though the punishments aren't quite critiqued enough to give hackers a reason not to hack again. Sure, they may not be able to play for X amount of time, or can't ever play again! I feel like we should be giving them a taste of their own medicine, or giving them a nice punch or two in the face.

    So, in saying this, I am proposing a multitude of different ideas for punishments:

    1) We create a couple new servers for each mini game in which hackers are immediately transported to. No kits, no team select. Just a barebones server dedicated for hackers. Once the hackers fight other hackers, they'll see the rage they're bringing to other players, some of which are drastically inexperienced.

    2) We make the hacker rage! Instead of instantly punishing them, let's publicly shame them! If we can work out a system like the GTA dunce hat, then maybe said hacker can wear a hacker-specific skin.

    3) Shame the hacker in the middle of a game! If a hacker is caught cheating in the middle of a game, then lets teleport them to a glass encasing and set them to adventure mode. They'll be stuck watching everyone else soak in the joy of the hacker being punished! Assuming, of course, they don't leave too quickly from the rage.

    Please reply! I'd love to hear you guys' thoughts.

    Harrison
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  2. Not sure any of these would work too well.

    1) In order for hackers to be instantly teleported to a hacker only server for whatever mini game that would be, that would require more on the development end. I think moderators should probably be more concerned in getting rid of hackers than trying to put them up against each other. I think the intent should be to ban hackers rather than matchmake them. That just says there is a place for them on mineplex, which is obviously not a good message to send.

    2 and 3) Not sure why you would want to shame any hackers. Yes, they are breaking the rules, but that doesn't mean it's right or good to be mean. Regardless of them hacking, being mean is still mean. I think getting banned from the server gets the message of "please follow the rules" across a little better than putting them in a glass box. I just don't think being mean to someone cheating is a good thing, ever.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    MarmotteSoprano and _wxrd_ like this.
  3. Hi there,

    Similar to what @Pangaea_ said above, I’m not to sure about the practicality of these ideas. Although it would be great to have hackers learn from their mistakes and notice that while hacking may be fun for them, it isn’t for others, I think there would be better ways to achieve this. For example, a system that increases ban/mute time depending on the amount of punishments in recent times, instead of just 10/30/40 days for the various hacking offenses. Of course, this would also require a way to prevent people from creating alts and bypassing the ban that way (say prevent brand new accounts from joining from the same ip as a recent ban, or if there are multiple accounts with the same ip that have all been banned for hacking prevent that ip from joining).

    While the first is a good idea to start with, and has the right goal, I disagree with the other two and don’t think that hackers should be ‘publicly shamed’. This would encourage the rest of the players to be mean to the hacker, which we don’t want even if that player was hacking. Besides, there isn’t anything to stop the hacker from simply joining another game and getting away without real punishment.
    -Bob
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    _wxrd_ likes this.
  4. nO
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  5. It comes down to IP banning not being a thing and it being incredibly easy to make accounts on Bedrock (2 minutes or less). IP bans are a thing on their Discord but not in game somehow.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    Mothy and _wxrd_ like this.
  6. True. Friends of mine play Java and have been IP banned on Hypixel numerous times, it makes it very difficult for them to join back on a separate account. Wish we could get this implemented immediately. That would scratch the entire need for this thread!
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 3, 2022
  7. I’m not gunna lie. I am adjusting to this idea and piggy backing off it. I’m liking where this is going with the separate mini game server for them to compete in. I like it. What would even be funnier is if they still got randomly banned when they were in their separate server.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    _wxrd_ likes this.
  8. Your idea sounds very similar to what many games adopt called shadow banning. It is a similar concept to your idea, where cheaters are matchmaked together instead of in normal lobbies. However, in many cases people will be falsely shadow banned and it would lead to many complications down the line. I see some people disagree with the 'shaming' aspect of the suggestion, even though GWEN on java allows everyone in the lobby to see a hacker being banned and can lead to some BM in chat towards the hacker just before they are banned. Perhaps having them put in a glass box would be a bit of an extreme, but I'm all for a similar mechanic being introduced to bedrock if the anti cheat is developed to allow players to be banned. The shadow ban aspect of your suggestion in my opinion, isn't really necessary. As others have said, the priority should be getting rid of the hackers, not humouring them. I therefore feel like we don't need to make the hacker rage either, for whatever they have decided to cheat, and for many cheaters, they enjoy the reaction they get from people. If they're swiftly banned, that would be more annoying than put in a glass box in my opinion.

    Overall its an interesting suggestion, and which something similar has been adopted by games like COD, so its not a bad idea, but I can't see its practicality and overall usefulness in lowering the amount of cheaters on the server.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    danb76 and _wxrd_ like this.
  9. Honestly I don't think this is would work out. Adding all this extra stuff might encourage more people to hack just to "test it out" and see all the new features. Plus, public humiliation isn't the best look for a server partnered with Microsoft.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    danb76, _wxrd_ and maevestarbaby like this.
  10. The only thing that makes people hack is making others pay attention at you.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    DaPBillk likes this.
  11. Hai! I love reading community suggestions and while I agree that *making a hacker rage* might make them not want to continue hacking, I agree with what @Bob16077777 said. As someone who spends a lot of time playing games, I understand that hackers can/do often ruin the experience however, I strongly believe that *publicly shaming* hackers won't help as it will likely make hackers hack more due the the attention they get and it ould also likely result in a lot of hate being sent to the hacker (which really isn't the point). While I do feel like it's important for a hackers to learn that cheating in-game is wrong, I feel like our current method of banning according to their actions is a better solution. I understand there's still a lot of hackers and both our anti-cheat and staff tools can be upgraded, but publicly shaming hackers (by changing their skin, moving them to a "hacker-only" server or putting them on display) will not fix the problem. Of course, these are just my thoughts and everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you agree or disagree with me, please feel free to (respectfully) reply and share your thoughts. I hope everyone's having a nice day! :)
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  12. What good are punishments if they never even get caught?
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
  13. That's one of the problems. The system is being bypassed by hack clients and there aren't enough mods on to manually check for hackers. It needs to be upgraded, and when hackers are detected, harsher punishment needs to be assigned to discourage hackers from continuing to hack.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Aug 3, 2022
  14. I have to agree with other users in a sense where I just don't really understand the point of going through the trouble. With the time it takes to implement this all, that time and effort could be used towards developing the anti-cheat to work towards solving the hacker problem, rather than just accepting it and making it work. The issue with the "shadow banning" is what Hazzer mentioned; there could be the possibility of users banned insufficiently, and this could cause a much larger problem in the long run. In the end, I don't really think shaming the players solves anything, and that using the time and resources towards developing the anti cheat would be a better use of time.
     
    Posted Aug 3, 2022
    _wxrd_ likes this.
  15. Yes, it does mean we should be "mean" to them 100%. they ruin our games and usually are the most boring people. Plus, if you're mean to them they'll be discouraged from ever playing on the server again. Which is good riddance, 100%
     
    Posted Aug 4, 2022
  16. Hi there Wxrd. First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to sit down and write this thread and for of course sharing your idea suggestion! Though many others have written responses that generally encompasses how I feel about your idea suggestion, I wanted to sit down and share my own two cents on your idea suggestion.

    Coming from someone who has been Staff several times throughout the many years I have been here, I believe that our punishment system is very balanced, especially in its current state. I am extremely in favor of the way punishments stack, but that is just my personal opinion. I understand it can be quite frustrating for some who have changed their ways drastically and happen to mess up once and get a longer punishment from one that occurred years ago. Though, I find that it generally encourages players to follow the rules due to the possibility of a longer punishment being applied because of previous offenses. For players who have no punishments, the starting length is not too bad in my opinion and should stay as is. For hacking offenses at the starting length (with no previous offenses):

    Severity 1: 1 day (Client Offenses; Unapproved Modifications)
    Severity 2: 30 days (General hacking)
    Severity 3: 40 days (Movement hacking)
    I personally do not think your ideas are feasible nor ideal for the way we punish people here on Mineplex. I do not mean that in any rude way, I just find that they would not serve as effective ways in punishing, or serve as an incentive to not cheat. Unfortunately, there is not a way to detect clients/unapproved modifications upon login for Bedrock, so sending them to a separate server to play would not be possible. I just do really favor the idea of allowing hackers to play in their own separate servers...To me, this would likely increase the probability of one cheating, especially if they are going up against another cheater. As far as public shaming, I do not feel that anyone deserves that type of humiliation, regardless if they are a cheater or not. We do not condone harassment here, so doing something like this would not be within Mineplex brand standards. Moderation is done discretely, not publicly in respect for a player's privacy. We will always value someone's privacy.

    I do appreciate your idea suggestions, as I generally understand where you are coming from. (Decrease the amount of cheaters there are through different moderation strategies) -- I again, feel that we have a balanced punishment system as is and while it may not seem like it due to the shortage we have in Bedrock Staff, our small Bedrock Moderation team does the best they can to moderate when they can. ~15 Staff is not enough for a 5k+ player base, that is the truth. With all being said, I unfortunately disagree with these suggestions, but I am interested in what others may have to say regarding your suggestions!
     
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    danb76 likes this.
  17. As much as I think this is such a funny idea, I have to disagree for the reasons stated above. Although I do think some sort of "Purgatory" or "Hacker Jail" server would be quite cool (Where banned players can complete challenges to unban while normal/regular players can troll them) it just doesn't really fit into Mineplex's theme haha. We defiantly do need to give some more love to Bedrock in terms of staff count and prioritise better moderation tactics and tools though :)
     
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    romvnly likes this.
  18. I feel if people are willing to go out of their way to obviously hack (which personally I find to be embarrassing enough) then I don't think that publicly "shaming" them will do much. It might even encourage more hacking as they may treat it as some sort of a joke and/or a way to get more attention.

    Also, it just seems a bit unprofessional to me? I mean, for the most part, we try to keep punishments relatively private and this just seems like the complete opposite of that. Just because they're making poor/unfair decisions doesn't mean we should stoop down to that level. I know a lot of people disagree with that statement, but if they choose to engage in such a way with someone who hacks then that's on them.

    Not to mention, the amount of time it would take to implement something I personally don't find to be worth it at all. I do think something should be done, but something like this is just honestly unrealistic.
     
    Posted Aug 5, 2022
    danb76 likes this.
  19. They go low, we go lower.
     
    Posted Aug 6, 2022
  20. I have to agree with the majority here and say I don't think this is worth the time and resources it would take to implement. I think that we need to be focusing on bringing in more staff to help with the hackers, putting more time towards reports, and implementing a better anti cheat. I think this idea is a funny take on hackers, but I don't really see doing these things bringing any reassurance to players about the hacker problem being solved.
     
    Posted Aug 6, 2022

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