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Implemented Petition - Remove Zombie Guardians

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by BannableName, Apr 25, 2020.

?

Should the Zombie Guardians be removed?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    38.1%
  2. No (Please explain why)

    9 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. Yes but with a few changes.

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
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  1. Clearly my comment has attracted some very negative attention, so I would like to clarify what I meant / continue to stand my ground in the most respectful manner.

    This was honestly a bit of hyperbole on my part towards your argument that since Skywars is a PvP game, it doesn't feel right that mobs have the ability to attack you. While using blatant satire in this example, I used the idea of a border killing a player getting a supply drop, and how since the border is not a player, it doesn't feel right when it does kill you. This parallels to your argument that in PvP games, only human players should be the only one being able to deal damage.

    If non-players shouldn't be able to deal damage in PvP games, then perhaps the void should also be removed in Skywars as well seeing that the void is a non-player, yet is able to deal infinite amounts of damage. If non-players shouldn't be able to deal damage in PvP games, then the border in Survival games shouldn't be able to deal damage to players.

    My point here is obvious, while I understand your frustrations when it comes to the zombies, I think they serve its job well of making players more cautious when looting middle, as well as slowing down the pace of the game.

    Again, maybe this situation doesn't happen very frequently, but most maps in Skywars, particularly the middle island is big enough so that you standing on the edge of the island is not within close proximity of the zombies, thus not aggravating them. In addition, zombie guardians are not that hard to kill. They only take 4-5 hits, and thus a player can easily kill them / knock them far enough to give themselves space to loot. As such, I don't see much of a problem with this.

    To be very honest, I'm don't really have much of a preference for this argument. I simply tried to point out that lava buckets used to be way more overpowered than they currently are. To my knowledge, lava buckets were nerfed significantly, and while they can deal great damage to a player, they also can deal great damage to zombies as well, and zombies most certainly can die from lava buckets, it just takes a longer time.


    I never argued that the point of the game is to make it harder for players to get strong loot. I'm simply stating that the zombies act as a barrier to slightly slows the pace of players from getting stronger loot. While zombies do repel fighting at mid, the amount of good loot at mid far outweighs the threat of the zombies, and that players most likely will still choose to come to the middle despite the zombies being a presence. It takes skill, to use the zombies towards your advantage and use it to defeat and kill your enemies.

    So, to conclude why I think removing zombies is a terrible idea.
    1. It's not a big deal. Zombies are not a mob boss that takes 5 minutes of your time to kill. They require 5 hits (depending on your weapon), and in most cases won't be able to touch you because your range is far higher than the zombie's range. As such, it is very easy for the player to knock them away / kill them before looting, and thus the zombies shouldn't be blamed for knocking players off the map when the player is the one not aware of his/her surroundings.
    2. Players are able to use zombies towards their advantage to get rid of opponents, thus encouraging skill. I have many, many experiences of being the undergeared in a fight, and that my strategy has always been to knock my opponent into the zombies, and let the zombies do damage for me. In addition, zombies offer a great opportunity for players to backstab. While certainly, that is annoying, we shouldn't remove parts of the game just because its "annoying". Instead, players should be the one thinking of ways to counter this move.
    3. Zombies drop loot. While yes, it is a fact that most of the time when you're killing zombies, you are probably already quite well-geared. As such, I will agree if a proposal is made that the zombies drop stronger loot. (stronger enchants, stronger armour etc)

    While I apologise for being the devil's advocate for this idea, I believe that my sentiments definitely are echoed server-wide, as seen by the "no" option being voted the most in the above poll. In addition, I don't see the point of how this idea will increase my gaming experience. Thank you for your efforts in suggesting and replying to this thread, but I am still not convinced by the arguments presented that supports the case of removing zombies. As such, -1.
     
    Posted Apr 29, 2020,
    Last edited Apr 29, 2020
  2. I personally don't have a problem with you we just have different opinions on the game. I will reply to your answers though and break everything down to what I and many others who play skywars competitively think.
    The void has been apart of skywars since it came out. You are fighting in the sky. It's the main point of the game. I never heard skywars with zombies but I've heard skywars with the void. As for survival games:
    The border doesn't prevent players from getting loot. You have all the time in the world to get loot and there are several chests in the map to get loot from. The zombies leave me very low always, even one zombie has a big impact on my health, much more 5 zombies. They do not make the players more cautious. They are impossible to prevent when looting the mid. If you want to enchant your sword or loot a chest in the middle you are 100% taking one hit at least if you are very lucky but it's mostly 2-3 minimum. You are likely going to say that you can kill them. In this game, you are simply NOT playing to kill zombies and to waste your time. You use your time to get good loot to kill players. I agree that it doesn't happen frequently that you will get knocked into the void but that's just one small point compared to all the others. Abusing zombies to kill people is not considered skilled, skill in this game is playing it normally and using your weapons to kill people.
    1. It is actually a very big deal. They take huge chunks of your health and 5 hits per zombie waste a lot of time. Every second is important while playing skywars and to kill all will take about 2 minutes which in those 2 minutes you are supposed to be killing people and playing the game.
    2. It's very easy to push players into zombies in order to damage them and crit them out. It doesn't involve a lot of strategy besides baiting them which by the way shouldn't work If the player has been playing the game enough to know that the zombie damage you.
    3. The loot they drop is completely useless. By the time you open 3 or 4 chests its enough to get full iron armor a few soups maybe a few pearls and perhaps a diamond sword.
    You are allowed to have an opinion, that's right I'm just explaining why all the points you mentioned are a bit false.
    As @Aeriql said we shouldn't be prevented to get better loot. Whoever is the faster and actually plays the game will rush the mid and get the loot needed to win,
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 29, 2020
  3. First of all, stop making college essays, it's annoying to read. Second, the border is on the outer edges of the map to force PLAYERS to fight each other and not camp. In skywars, the zombies are at the center of the map, making fighting a living nightmare and making the game more about how you can punish a player by pushing him into zombies.

    Also, most of the competitive community doesn't read forums, so the poll votes will be biased towards uncomp players. There should be a test or an in-game vote about them, and you should have above 500 wins so you know what you are talking about if you vote.
     
    Posted Apr 29, 2020
  4. Hi!

    Just gonna drop a couple of replies to the threads that have quoted me.

    Perhaps this has to do with your playing style instead. If there are zombies nearby, shouldn't you kill the zombies before looting/enchanting? Similarly, if there are players nearby, you should also be killing the players before allowing yourself to loot. I would like to say that I do understand this situation, and it has happened to me many, many times as well. However, this has only happened to me when I'm greedy and want to enchant despite the obvious threats of zombies around. As such, I've changed my strategy and make sure I kill 1-2 zombies that are nearby before allowing myself to loot chests / use the enchantment table. I think it's a basic thing for players to be well aware of their surroundings, and that if this is very important for every game too and a lot of the times it is a skill that separates a good player and a decent player.

    Again, not true. Most games are about adaptability, how well a player can take advantage of his/her surroundings and use it to their advantage. The terrain would be great as an example. The reason why Skywars maps are generally not completely flat is that sometimes high-ground gives you a good advantage, whereas low-ground gives you sometimes allow you to land extra hits. As such, a huge part of Skywars is adapting and taking advantage of the environment. I would argue that zombies fit into this narrative as well.

    Again, I don't think this is a fair comment to make. The middle island is one huge shared island, and that in general, one player alone is never required to kill all the zombies themselves because there are always other players around killing them for you too. In addition, no one is requiring you to kill all the zombies before looting a chest, you can simply kill 1-2 that are really close to you to make sure you don't get backstabbed when opening the chest.

    I more or less agree with what you said about the loot dropping being completely useless, but as such, I am proposing an idea where zombies drop better loot. I think this would be a better idea than removing zombies entirely.

    In addition, I'm not sure what you meant by "college essays". If it is my language used, I am only trying to maintain a professional and civil discussion here, which clearly is needed before this thread becomes an insults battle. I suggest that it continue that way as we are covering many points of discussion by doing so. If its the amount of words I post per reply, you have to understand that I am the only one here arguing for my case here (despite there being 7 people voting the same as me), and as such, naturally I have to reply and comment to more people.

    I don't think this is a fair statement. I've consulted with many of my friends, all of whom agree and liked the zombies at middle. I don't think Mineplex should turn into a server that only prioritises those that are competitive. Personally, I don't play this game competitively. I do so more to have fun, and I think that it is fair to say that there is a significant chunk of people like me.

    The forums is a place where ideas flow within the community. I personally believe that the admins / developers keep an eye on the forums sometimes to understand the community wants and needs. If many members of the competitive community don't read the forums, it may be an indication that they don't really care much about zombies as well, seeing that they are not bothered to make a forums account to add to this discussion. In addition, I don't think the word "biased" is the correct word you used. If you had used the word "unrepresentative" or "disproportionate", I can somewhat understand where you are coming from, but the word "bias" implies that someone has rigged the votes, which is clearly not true.

    Following the publication of my post around 8 hours ago, the "no" votes have gone up by 2, where as the "yes" votes have gone up by one. I think it is fair to say that judging by the poll, more people are agreeing with me and my ideas.


    Thank you so much for coming up with this discussion. As an individual, I am not afraid to switch my opinion, but its just that none of the points so far come up are convincing enough for me to do so. As such, I would maintain a -1.
     
    Posted Apr 29, 2020
  5. The main players of skywars are competitive, so the game should appeal to its main player base. Now, I do not believe you have ever played competitively, (rushing mid in the first 20 seconds) But fighting leaderboard players in the midst of mobs doing half your heath is completely bad for gameplay. I think you should try playing comp to make your opinion.

    Also, there are many maps where the mid is small, such as fractal. with 8 zombies in the spam of 16 blocks with holes in it, it is completely toxic game play. Saying one big island is middle just isn't true some of the time. and I think that in the middle of the maps where there is a temple structure where the zombies and most of the mid loot live is more what we are talking about, not the outskirts.
     
    Posted Apr 30, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Apr 30, 2020
  6. I would actually mention this point in a reply but I didn't want to reply anymore, I just accepted that they have a different opinion and that opinion probably won't change.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 30, 2020
  7. bump
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted May 3, 2020
  8. Hey!

    I just wanted to quickly say that this change has already been implemented in the recent Skywars Update in July.

    With this in mind, I will be marking this thread as Implemented as well as locking it.

    Thanks for suggesting!

    Thread Locked >> Idea Implemented
     
    Posted Oct 26, 2020
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