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Discussion in 'Mine-Strike' started by launu, Oct 18, 2020.




    37 vote(s)
  2. no lol stay useless

    7 vote(s)
  1. Hey Damien, glad you read my post and commented, any feedback is appreciated!
    You stated, "Pretty much all of RC's duties are to review the rules and form a consensus on if it should be changed", So after at least two years of the whole MS community complaining about rayers time and time again, RC forms the consensus that nothing can be done about rayers? There are no new rules created that'll terminate them from the minestrike community? They'll just stay rampant even if they're so reckless as to stare directly at players through walls, prefire 2 seconds in advance at a player across the map, and even shoot at walls at a player, just to be deemed "dealt with", and to be seen online the very next day?

    Furthermore, the "regular"- in this case, non-RC, staff members (including Tilcorn) should be the ones that are carrying out the rules delegated by RC, correct? If RC isn't even attempting to create rules to oppose these transgressors, what shall the staff members do? Nothing.

    I'll provide you an example you should relate to. Picture this- you're a staff member, and you KNOW, completely KNOW that there is a cheater, let's say he's using killaura, or blatant reach. However, the current RC prevents you from banning them, as long as they're not setting any alerts to GWEN, because you know- they could just be W tapping, or it could just be ping, right? How would you feel if you couldn't ban them? You're seeing the entire PVP community in Mineplex suffer because RC is being too incompetent and "friendly" to these players that have a 1% chance of being legit, in which they can appeal, and have a great chance of being unbanned if they were actually legit.

    Personally, if I were RC, I'd stop being so lenient in the unreasonably high-standards needed to ban rayers, I'd be more lenient in these players' appeals being accepted on the off-chance that they were actually not raying. All they need to do is provide logic to their behaviors and they should be unbanned. For instance, if I am caught "xraying," and banned, in which I prefired a rifle in the same exact angle every round, and I keep killing the same player that's ignorant enough to keep walking into my prefire, I'd appeal what I did, why I did it, and why I should be unbanned. Nothing more than that.

    As I said, thanks for your comment, any feedback is appreciated as it'll help this post get attention and be brought to the staff's attention! :) Have a great night!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Oct 19, 2020
    DragonGamer902 and anna dot like this.
  2. Vright is pretty blatant I’ll give you that

    Definitely some common movements/behaviors in rayers, and it does need to be focused on, but Mine-Strike seems to be pretty neglected in general so I’d be surprised to see any change.
    Posted Oct 19, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
    Fusafez likes this.
  3. You can count on the king of baiters to hit home with this one. I'm with you on this one Launu for as long as Ive played the game Ive been astonished to see that players using some of the most potent cheats can stay around with no punishment. I hope to see this problem solved sooner than later, but cheaters will always find a way.
    Posted Oct 20, 2020
    launu and Fusafez like this.
  4. What you're talking about, and to echo what @mab8400 stated about Block Hunt is the issue of these types of cheats going unpunished for so long that it's more or less very uncommon to actually get caught and sufficiently punished while using ESP or Xray. Communities for these games aren't as large as they used to be, so either the smaller playerbase is making it more apparent who's cheating and who isn't, or the dwindling playercount is causing people to get bored and want to cheat their way to a certain amount of wins. Either way, if you cheat for long enough you're going to get better at hiding it, so it's difficult to make a 100% certain decision.

    RC is one of the most challenging teams to be on- besides consistently being a voice of authority and knowledge for the community and on an internal basis, you're constantly trying to get an overview of an everchanging environment of the server, and take in community and staff input on rules and what needs to change, or stay the same. Obviously, it isn't practical that every member of RC besides their current obligations and duties has to play and stay updated with specific communities such as Minestrike, for example. Although I agree that putting staff members with already consistent knowledge in these games in a position to punish those players is a good solution, it's fairly impractical and putting just a few staff members in charge of these games can be a piling workload.

    Take a look at it this way. The staff team has largely limited resources, meaning there are not many opportunities for players and staff members to be able to collect more evidence on these players and get something done about them. Largely the Reports Patrol system is very clear, but certain guidelines that cannot be distributed to the community gets in the way of getting enough evidence. I don't think that the staff team or RC don't care about the xraying / ESP problem in these various games, but spending time to catch these players, with a large majority of them not being blatant about it, it can take up a ton of time and be very impractical, while staff members such as you mentioning Tilgorn are on Sr. Mod Teams, subteams or just busy with other requirements / responsibilities. It is difficult to 'submerge' yourself into every part of the community that needs help.

    The reason these things aren't punishable for all staff members is because not all staff members have extensive knowledge of these gamemodes, and allowing them the ability to punish for these things would honestly cause more false bans than not. So is the solution inviting certain staff members to RC to 'relax' a bit of the stress already put on RC for these things? I would probably say no, because issuing punishments for Xray, ESP and everything else is not the only responsibility of the team. Either there needs to be a prerequisite team to RC that is granted to certain staff members with extensive knowledge of these games that gives them permission to do so, or the community and staff have to take greater steps forward to actively stop cheaters from being able to thrive in an environment that can't do enough to stop them.

    I'm hoping that in the future changes get put into these games that make it more difficult for these types of cheaters to thrive. There's definitely a lot of room for features in Block Hunt that could severely impact the way ESPers play the game, and hopefully it can be the same for Minestrike. For now I would just say that these communities need to use their resources through recording and reporting cheaters, and make it apparent how big of a problem that ESP and Xray is in these gamemodes.
    Posted Oct 20, 2020
    Fusafez and WowCaleb like this.
  5. Some people don't have an interest in being on RC. To the best of my knowledge, Tortelett not being on RC has nothing to do with ability.
    Posted Oct 20, 2020
  6. Players can say all they like, but we all know the staff team doesn't care about the experience of minestrike. I quit the game because of a combination of rayers and csgo just being better.

    The staff don't care if you report someone watching someone's every block move through a wall. it's ridiculous that you need an actual picture of the xray ON THEIR SCREEN to get them banned.
    Posted Oct 20, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
    A_Platypus likes this.
  7. I find it very interesting that even though people have been complaining about **** like this for years but mp hasnt done a single thing about it, its always the same lame excuse they use "wE cAnT pRoOf ThAt ThEy'Re RaYiNggggG". Literally any mp staff get on podcrash, turn on the spectator esp and spectate/overwatch someone. you can literally see them prefiring through walls even across the map, looking through walls n all that kinda ****. its really not that hard if someone has been doing the same **** the entire time to see if someone is raying or not.

    literally just give some experienced ms players that are willing to "revive" the game trainee, give them permission to ban and if someone is raying make them record it to justify the ban. its been years and nothing has been done, this should be a decent first step. besides there is almost never even staff on ms lol.

    no problem adios
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
    DragonGamer902 and launu like this.
  8. I think that the reason that x-ray is such a popular hack is that it's arguable that it's "difficult to spot" and can be used across several games. I agree that the problem needs to be dealt with, especially in games like MS and even PB. +1
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
  9. My point was that experience doesn’t have much to do with RC
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
  10. What's poppin!

    Alright I think I should clarify a few things. Why yes xray hacks is definitely a big problem within primarily the Minestrike community granting all staff members the ability to punish for it won't fix the problem. It's extremely hard to determine certain hacks as it's hard to view them to the visible eye. That's why members of QA deals with them as well as Modified KB and Reach.
    Second RC is a big job. If your suggesting a person for RC because they know one rule that won't cut it. Members of RC are dedicated to the rules looking for ways to improve upon and alter them to make sure they're up to code. If you feel a rule could be altered you could message member on RC regarding your opinion on the rules.
    But that's all I really have to really have to say about your post. If you want to discuss your opinion more you can message me on the forums or you can just quote my text with a response and I'll respond to you.
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
    Fusafez likes this.
  11. To the visible eye, unless you're missing a brain, it's obvious when people are xraying. Very few of them have more than one braincell to hide it.
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
    DragonGamer902 likes this.
  12. I heard only RC punishes for xray?
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
  13. If that’s the case then they know normal staff can’t ban for it. But it still doesn’t take the fact away that there can be times when it can seem difficult to detect it. It’s primarily because RC is trained to deal with such offenses as they know primarily to look for. I see your point to why it should change. But it raises the question. If staff member can ban for x-ray in MS for obvious offenses then they should be able to punish for X-ray in general even in BH as well.
    Oops I forgot they did. Gets kinda confusing between what RC can punish for and what QA can punish for at times.
    Posted Oct 21, 2020
  14. Nice post january

    Posted Oct 21, 2020,
    Last edited by a Moderator Oct 24, 2020
    joshah likes this.
  15. Hi. I'm Pikav, a player who was around in Minestrike pubs for roughly 4 years. I agree with this topic's sentiments about rayers; I wish that something was done about them sooner, as hackers were the reason why many of my friends and I left the game. I have witnessed the surges and declines in the Minestrike community's numbers, and the existence of rayers has been one of the number one frustrations and game-breakers based on my conversations with the community. When I still played the game, I wholeheartedly wished for rayers to be punished one day. From 2018 to 2019, I had even typed up a spreadsheet of the names of hackers I came across. The fact that my list came to roughly 400 unique names (without including alt accounts) is utterly absurd. Nowadays, every Minestrike game is virtually guaranteed to have at least one rayer present. I hope that this situation improves for the Minestrike community.
    Posted Oct 22, 2020
    DragonGamer902 and Flippaz like this.
  16. Yeah - no. x ray in general is not that easy to see and from a mentor perspective, I can see it being constantly false banned for because it's harder to take note of for a regular staff member.

    the goal is to limit the amount of false bans we issue not just doing anything we want because they can "just appeal it anyways". That's not how the staff team works and is not a good way of punishing players - at all.

    I don't think any staff member thinks they are a veteran after playing 3 games.

    The elitism is real. People learn at different paces and one's number of games won doesn't correlate to one's knowledge of the game mode.

    Or, since you are an "expert" with spotting X-ray, you can do your part by reporting them on the forums and it will be reviewed by the appropriate folks....

    Let's be real here. Calling on staff to use their brain cells isn't really going to advance your cause. It's disrespectful and unnecessary. No one denies that x-ray is an issue in Minestrike. I used to be quite interested in Minestrike myself a few years back and it was an issue then too. In terms of a solution, I think it boils down to QA and RC creating and providing resources to the staff team to help them learn how to distinguish x-ray in this particular game-mode. The question is whether RC/QA wanted to a) provide these resources and b) allow the general staff team to punish. Because of how slight closet cheaters can use x-ray, this will most likely lead to more false bans which is not what we want in the slightest.
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
    Fusafez, zdemon98, okDamien and 2 others like this.

    One of the biggest reasons as to why X-Ray is not easily bannable is that in order for a report to be considered by RC, you need at least 8 different instances of blatant X-Ray. This can be very difficult to obtain, especially for players who do not use Podcrash or Immortal because they do not have access first person spectating or spectator ESP. I believe that if this rule could be changed to be something similar as to how Block Hunt ESP is punishable then much more rayers would get punished. :D
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
  18. @launu I feel left out but still that's alright. While I was on the staff team, I suggested the creation of a team dedicated to minestrike, called minestrike management (yes kind of like clans management). Obviously, RC and LT rejected the idea and pretty much turned it into a meme. To even get to the point where xrayy even became bannable, I won't even tell you that it took quite a lengthy discussion.

    We all know that minestrike was a popular game, where you would have over 120 people playing at a given time, but because of the increasing number of xrayers, most legit players have stopped playing because of the unfair advantage of those who see through walls. If RC and the staff team had taken MS more seriously and addressed the problem, the game would probably still have a large playerbase (and maybe we would actually get updates to fix the random bounceback of the grenades and stuff).

    Now don't think I'm that player with only like 5 games played, I have played over 3000 games of Minestrike, so I do think that I could confidently say that I am a MS veteran.

    It's not that RC doesn't care about minestrike but the problem lies with false bans, which can easily be solved with a dedicated team of staff members who can deal with the issue.

    @Sven I'll have to respectfully agree and disagree. Xray is quite simple to see but it requires the right tools, specifically the (approved) podcrash mod, which allows you to see outlines of players once you become a spectator. Feel free to contact me if you want examples !!!!
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
  19. Right and im not forcing my mentees to download a mod so that they can spot rayers easier. Focus, if anything, should be dedicated to the learning aspect of how to spot it without those mods. And that boils down to whether RC/QA wants to indulge with that or not.
    Posted Oct 23, 2020
    January34 ゴ likes this.
  20. Xray 1 - 0 Staff team

    not possible unless devs push an update with the possibility to see nametags a spectator or player outlines. maybe after 7 months from the last bug fix, they'll add something like that hehehe

    as if RC was not reluctant to reject the idea lol. xray becoming bannable just puts more stress on RC at least

    I feel like im attacking you sven but i promise it's nothing personal
    Posted Oct 23, 2020

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