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In Discussion Reasons why the smash crystal should be Removed

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by TheStudentUnion, Jan 15, 2020.


Should the smash crystal be removed?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
  3. No but they need balancing

    8 vote(s)
  1. This topic was briefly discussed in another thread that I made, since it was getting off topic, I decided to make a new thread about it.

    Hello everyone, I am the student union. I have been playing smash mobs for about 4 years, and have seen many things that seemed out of place for the competitive gamemode. One of those things is the smash crystal. This is obviously a very controversial topic, so I decided to make my own argument against the smash crystal and address some arguments for the smash crystal.

    The Smash crystals in super smash mobs make gameplay annoying due to a various amount of reasons. First of all, they are extremely unbalanced and some kits get extreme advantages over others. For example, lets compare the chickens smash crystal to the skeleton horse's smash crystal. The chicken gets the smash crystal if the player has good accuracy, timing, and maintains their health before the smash (which is very difficult to do). Their smash is the worst in the game, sometimes, it cant even kill someone and the chicken can get killed while using it! Now, lets look at the horse. Using horse, the smash crystal can be obtained with simply a single right click of the bone rush! Also on top of that, it has the most broken smash to ever exist. I have seen it take down all 4 lives of a player, even the most skilled players dont stand a chance. This is all done with basic manuevering, something anyone can do. In fact, some horse players run the whole game until the smash crystal comes and then they use it. The strategy takes absolutely no skill, yet gives them thousands of wins.

    That takes us to my next reason, it encourages running. For this I ask you, fellow reader, a question. Who do you think is more deserving of a win. Someone who has applied themselves throughout the whole battle and risked their lives to kill everyone?Or someone who runs the entire game and then uses the smash crystal (obtained by one right click). Guess who would win, if you guessed the person who fought the round, you are wrong. Its actually the person who ran and used smash. Because of their kit and the smash crystal, they did not have to apply themselves to win the game, instead, the game did everything for them.

    Now lets look at the arguments for the smash crystal.

    I hear a lot if people say that smash should still be in the game because killing people is satisfying with it. For this I use another game as an example, team fortress 2 and random crits. It may seem rewarding to get a kill you didnt deserve, but what about the person who died?

    Another argument I recently heard on the forums is that smash is a cool aspect to the game. I agree with this, however, I think that gameplay is more important. In fact, the gameplay of ssm is what kept me playing on mineplex for such a long time. Cool elements to a game are great and all, but they should never affect the gameplay, the sole thing that makes the game fun in the first place.

    Overall, I think that smash crystals should be removed because of reasons regarding gameplay, which include encouraging people to play defensive and annoying strategies, and making the game far more unbalanced than it already is.

    This has been my view of the smash crystals,
    Thank you for reading!
    Posted Jan 15, 2020
  2. Hi there!

    I see where you're coming from with your explanation and it was very detailed! Personally I'm going to disagree with this for a couple of reasons.

    1. I completely agree that the smash crystals are completely unbalanced, most of them are completely useless and some of them you can use it and kill the entire lobby, this completely ruins the game for the people how aren't using the smash crystals. But this issue can easily be resolved but simply nerfing the Smash Crystals and Buffing some of the bad ones.

    2. I don't really believe this encourages running because unless the lobby is teaming, most of the people in the game will usually run around all the corners of the map and at least get to fight every person, and if someone is to run the entire game and get the smash crystal they most likely would have well earned it by being able to dodge everyone the entire game so simply that is far.

    Overall I don't think the Smash Crystals should be removed I just think they need a major rework as in major nerfs and major buffs. I'll be giving this idea an -0.5. Thanks for hearing me out!

    Good luck on the rest of your suggestions!
    Posted Jan 18, 2020
  3. When Im talking about people who run and get the smash I am referring to the blaze and horse players. Blaze in particular has speed and a overpowered recovery ability which you can use quite often. Blazes can use this to avoid all the damage and they can take some damage but they have quite a bit of defense compared to most other kits. On top of that they get the smash easily. Also, they wont have to dodge every player in the game. They just have to pet the other players fight each other. Running is not difficult to do and those who dont apply themself in the fight should not deserve a chance at winning. Smash crystals encourage running because they allow the runners to kill people. People make strategies based on getting them.

    Nerfing the smash crystals is indeed another solution to this problem. The only question is, how much should they be nerfed? I think if they are gonna be nerfed they should barely affect gameplay. This will stop people from relying on them to win.
    Thank you for your opinion!
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jan 18, 2020
  4. Hey!

    As your post is quite long I'll divide it into different segments and explain why I agree/disagree with the point you make in each segment. :)

    Ok, this seems like a fairly reasonable point - some of the crystal abilities are unbalanced. However, just because there is an unbalance in the power of the kits doesn't mean that all the crystal abilities should be removed. Changes can be made to the crystal ability for each mob if necessary. In order to consider scrapping the entire concept of the Crystals Mineplex would need multiple good reasons why - and something that can instead be resolved by some balancing isn't likely to be significant enough grounds to scrap the entire concept. As a similar point was made above by Camull_, the very cool choo choo, I will comment on your reply to their post as well:

    If they're going to be nerfed to the point where they hardly effect gameplay, then they might as well be removed. Allow them to have a significant impact on the game, just ensure that obtaining the crystal is as valid of a strategy for all the mobs in the game, and not just the Blaze and Skeleton Horse players (etc). I'm not saying that all the abilities should be broken, just that they all impact the game significantly without ensuring a swift victory for the player who obtains it.

    The way you phrased this post makes it seem as though you think running is an invalid strategy. Running away as certain kits allows you to take fights from long range, which can be significant if you're playing a kit that has long range abilities. Running away was an intended part of the game - otherwise long range abilities wouldn't exist. Do you expect a Chicken player to fight in close-quarters with a Skeleton Horse player? No, you don't. The reason is because different mobs were designed to have different play-styles. If you're having issues with a player who is attempting to fight at long range and avoid fights then maybe it's a better idea to target that specific player in the game and leave the other players to fight.

    However, I must admit I see your point about being able to win too easily by evading until you can use the smash crystal. Although, I don't see this point as enough of a reason for why the smash crystal should be removed. That just means that the actual abilities should be altered so that the smash crystal doesn't provide such a drastic effect to gameplay. Some of the mobs smash crystal abilities just need to be nerfed. That ensures that players are still OK to attempt to take fights at long range (in other words, players are free to use a legitimate fighting strategy), but also means that certain mobs don't have an instant win button and are rewarded for their pacifism in fights. It's reasonable to allow fights to occur at long range, but there's no need to create an instant win button that rewards you for constantly taking fights at long range as opposed to close range.

    I'd also like to point out that the smash crystal doesn't always encourage running. In fact, as you stated above, a Skeleton Horse player might become more aggressive and attempt to take control of the place where the smash crystal is going to land. It's a way that the game ensures that players who do fight at a long range are encouraged to come together to fight - it encourages combat when the smash crystal is going to land.

    Thanks! :)
    Posted Jan 21, 2020
  5. I used to subscribe to the idea that this problem could be fixed by just attempting to balance the smashes, something MP has consistently avoided doing not only for the smashes themselves but really the whole game of SSM (what has it been, 2 years since the last SSM update?). But the thing is- I don't think there's a version of SSM where smashes retain their appeal to players and aren't OP; they're purposefully designed to be overpowered game-changers, and that obviously has a detrimental effect on gameplay. I really don't think you can balance them.

    However, I wonder if a pre-game voting system could be beneficial? Players vote in the same way that they vote for maps: yes to smash crystals or no to smash crystals. If 3/4 or more of the lobby is in agreement that they're broken, then they vote no, and they're not in that game. If the vote is in favor of smash crystals being in that game, or if it's inconclusive due to people not voting, then smash crystals are in that game. If the vote is a tie, then Idk, choose an option randomly for fairness. I think this option permits a reasonable middle ground for people who don't like them and people who do.
    Posted Jan 21, 2020,
    Last edited Jan 21, 2020
    Mitchy, pinfoil, SpitefulNick and 4 others like this.
  6. Theres a difference between fighting long range and running. Fighting long range takes aim timing and dodging. Running is simply spamming space and recovery move and completely avoiding the fight.

    I agree with the idea to vote for smash just like halloween horror challenger mode.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jan 21, 2020
  7. I would support the voting compromise only if it is completely off the table that mineplex will remove smash crystals from the game. I still feel a removal is simple to do and mineplex does not need to wait until it is SSM's "turn" to remove smash crystals as it is a simple fix that can be made in a regular bug fix update. In fact it is easier than fixing a bug.
    Posted Jan 21, 2020
  8. I think if we were to balance smashes we should make it so the kits that get the smash easily get worse smash crystals and kits that get it with difficulty get better smash crystals, because they took a huge risk. I think the horse and blaze are the best examples of kits with extremely unbalanced smash crystals, if those kits get nerfed and their smash does I would have no problem with the smash crystal being in the game. Removing the smash or adding a voting system are both easier solutions but I just think something needs to be done about this.
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Jan 23, 2020

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