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In Discussion Speed Builders - Practice Mode

Discussion in 'Game Alterations' started by CookieBilly, Apr 10, 2021.


  1. [​IMG]

    Thinking about Mineplex's popular games: I've noticed that speed builders could do with a new mode, speed builders is super fun: but lacks any ability to practice/beat personal bests. I think I've come up with a good concept for a "practice mode" that makes speed builders better and brings a solid update to the game: it's built to be friendly to both sweats who want to aim for quicker builds, as well as casual players, trying to aim for longer streaks.

    This would be a "nano games like" mode, which allows 1-9 players to use the same server (which never ends) to endlessly practice speed builders.

    ───────────────────────────────────────────────

    Sub-modes

    Within Practice mode, you'll be able to select 3 different modes, allowing you to practice different aspects of speed builders.

    The first mode is "Speed mode"
    This gives you 30 seconds to complete a build perfectly (builds chosen on the next screen). If you fail, you can choose to start again. The aim of this mode is to complete a build faster and faster every time, within this mode: you can set personal bests for each build, as well as global/world record times for each build.

    The second sub-mode is "Streak mode"
    This mode allows you to streak builds, where you'll be able to set personal bests for the highest streak (a streak being completing a 100% build, then resetting). Within this mode, the "reset build" option (discussed later in the thread). Will be disabled to stop people from being able to reset the time to save a streak.

    The third mode is "Flawless mode"
    In flawless mode: you're expected to build builds flawlessly, with no errors, building incorrectly will result in it being reset: this should hopefully allow "tryhards" to get better at getting the build done the first time, every time.

    ───────────────────────────────────────────────

    Options
    With each game mode listed above, you can then choose options for the builds you'll be given to complete, allowing you to choose a specific build, a queue of builds, or just being given random builds in the current public rotation.

    Queue
    Within queue, you are able to queue a set of specific builds (or singular build): for example, you could queue the hardest builds you're able to find to challenge yourself or queue the easiest ones you're able to find if you just want to chill and try and get a high streak to flex on discord.

    Random
    This gives you the public queue in a random order, allowing you to practice as if you were in the real game.

    ───────────────────────────────────────────────

    Example Gameplay

    I got a bit bored and created an example version of this mode within Java, so enjoy some example gameplay.




     
    Posted Apr 10, 2021
    cernsie, SmellyBen, yauvi and 20 others like this.
  2. Reserved for any updates & criticism reply
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 10, 2021
    andr3w likes this.
  3. I definitely support some form of Speed Builders practice, this is a unique take on it as well. An MPS/MCS ideas document already suggests to increase the pool of games you can play alone, adding Speed Builders. That's the easy way to add a "practice mode", and pretty foolproof as well. I'm still going to leave my 2c on this as this is an interesting idea and I have a lot to say - especially considering SB is one of the most popular games on the server (sometimes on the top, over CW) and has gained massive traction in the entire Minecraft community as well.

    I think my biggest issue with this is that you can set global records and leader boards - even if it's in the practice mode. It takes the attention from the main game. The actual Speed Builders should be the end-game boss; you should only be able to set records there.

    Now for the rest of your idea.

    I believe there should only be one mode - Speed Mode. A streak can be incorporated into Speed Mode, and Flawless Mode is very flawed (more on that later). Therefore it wouldn't be a mode, that would just be the entire game. The options (Queue & Random) can stay.

    As for Speed Mode itself, I don't think there should be a 30 second timer. I think there shouldn't be a timer at all (maybe 60 seconds if someone is AFK). There are builds that can take quite a while and if this is practice for everybody then they shouldn't immediately be under pressure.

    Streak Mode sounds like it could just be incorporated into any mode so I wouldn't have it standalone.

    Flawless Mode would not work. There are many builds that you HAVE to place a block in the "wrong place" so that you can place another block and make it work. Examples of this are many of the slab builds. Therefore it's just not realistic. It should only matter to get the build perfect anyways, not how you actually got it. I can see why you'd want this mode and I understand as well but even adding exceptions to all the builds that physically require you to put a block in the wrong place would take too long and in the end would just defeat the purpose.

    The options both sound good. If someone wants to practice one build over and over again like in your videos, then that's perfect. And then a random queue through all the other builds - also perfect.

    I really love your take on this (despite some flaws) - I don't think a NANO-like SB practice has ever been suggested and it would be really fun. Seeing everyone just practice in one lobby sounds sick.
     
    Posted Apr 10, 2021
    Fusafez, CookieTom and CookieBilly like this.
  4. Whilst I do see this as an issue, I highly doubt people would swap competitive public play for a practice mode that has no statistic tracking: apart from those statistics to help you personally track your progress. I genuinely believe this would increase the community as a whole as more people would be drawn to it, due to the ability to be practiced in-house and the ability to appeal to both competitive players and casual players: plus, you're still able to interact in this new mode. However, I do feel if it was implemented, metrics would need to be watched to ensure that public games are still starting and this isn't significantly effecting the community.

    I personally discussed this with @whalker: as whilst coding I realized how pointless it was to split this into 2 seperate modes and he said keeping them split was the best idea. I'm hoping he can give more insight in a further reply.

    I'm not exactly an experienced speed builders player personally, so I'll take your word that this is impossible, Maybe adding dirt/a scaffold block of some type that can be used in place of other blocks to ensure you're able to complete it would be a good idea? I personally like the challenge of the mode, but I can definitely see some builds just not working.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 10, 2021
    andr3w and CookieTom like this.
  5. I definitely agree with this, a lot of people do this already -- but they leave Mineplex to get that practice. I like the cognizant approach, evaluating metrics.

    I personally had thought that having them separate could be fun, because sometimes I do just want to slowly practice, but I see your points now @maevestarbaby and thinking about it, I think that they can be merged and the streaks implemented to that.

    So I guess my thoughts based on what Maeve has said had led me to this point: love speed mode, think it is amazing. Add streaks and that could be really cool.

    Add a general "practice mode" that will have no time limit (except for an AFK timeout of 5 minutes or so per build in combination with the actual AFK timer) and this would allow people to build without any sort of time pressure. I think that this in combination with speed could work really well.

    And with the Speed Mode, maybe you could make it customizable, where the player could set the max amount of time they have to build, whether it be it maxes at their personal best or a set second amount before it resets.

    For stats, my 2c is that you should only be able to set personal records within the practice mode and any "leaderboards" against other players for speeds for builds should be required to be set in the actual game. (Those this probably would require a general update for SB stats as well). This way, people are still encouraged to play in the actual game and practice is just that, practice for the game itself.

    Ultimately, I think this is such a cool concept and love all the work that you put into it. The coded demos really add a lot to the thread and make the idea come to life. Hopefully we can see it on the network sometime soon!
     
    Posted Apr 10, 2021
    rilau, outlloved, andr3w and 2 others like this.
  6. Personally, I think this is a great idea but does need some touching up.

    As we all know, being good at something doesn't happen overnight, lots of practice is always vital to improvement and it can be demotivating when others who have had lots of experience beat you, even if they've been playing for years and this is your first ever game.

    The concept would benefit brand new players and experienced players. New player, if they would like to just have a few practice rounds before their first games, and experienced players if they want to boost their personal best.

    I like the fact that there are three different ideas for types of practice as there is normally never a way to improve through one specific model.

    However, for this mode, I do agree with @maevestarbaby that there shouldn't be a time limit for this mode, and instead have it run forever especially when there are players like me who cannot build for the life of them :P.


    I do love the coded demos because it does clear up any confusion and demonstrates all the ideas very well. I would love to see these implemented!
     
    Posted Apr 10, 2021
    whalker and andr3w like this.
  7. Great Idea, especially because of the number of players on the network that main SB. Also big props for taking the initiative to show what this would look like by coding these ideas.

    +1
     
    Posted Apr 10, 2021
    CookieTom and whalker like this.
  8. This is pretty great!
    Practice mode is definitely something I heard players say should be added. I agree with all the modes and options as it's pretty unique and great way to enhance your skills. One thing I would love to add is a way to stack the modes. If any error of any kind would result, it would reset. It's a big challenge that I am sure players would be willing to take on.
    Something whalker said was to make Speed Mode more customizable with setting your own time. Perhaps you could place an item and it would increase by 3's or 5's!
    Great post, good luck in the future with it <3!
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  9. When the mods call you a tryhard :pensive:
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  10. Hey! I don’t usually play speed builders, but something like this may actually encourage me to play! I think having a way to practice without feeling the pressure of a real game would be a great addition, especially those who want to improve in a less competitive way. Overall, great idea! I totally agree:)
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  11. I've always thought there should be some form of practice for Speed Builders as this could encourage a lot more people to join the game, or even just to practice at certain builds which can be challenging. I do really like your idea as a whole and I think it could have huge potential in the Speed Builders community, there is just a couple of things I personally would change:

    Speed Mode + Streaks
    Firstly, I love the idea of having three different modes for this - It sounds a lot more encouraging and gives both new and old players a chance. The idea of Speed Mode sounds really cool, especially if you were able to chose the build then practice like the real game - I personally think that would be extremely encouraging for a lot of players, new and old. Whalker also mentioned above about changing the time and that could be incredibly useful too. Maybe a compass or another item could be added to the inventory whereby you can change the time by 3 seconds (or more/less) up or down to allow everyone to have a choice (but ensure there is some sort of maximum and minimum limit).

    Streaks is also another motivating factor I'd love to see implemented on Speed Mode. Playing to beat your own personal best seems extremely fun and it would allow both new SB players and older ones to practice and get better in their own time. The only flaw I could potentially is see that if people continuously do a single build to get a high streak, but if there is no leaderboards/only a personal leaderboard, it shouldn't matter.

    I love this idea as well. Adding just a simple mode with no timer whereby you can pick builds (or not) would be a great addition for those players who just want to build, practice and have no pressure of a timer. Also what whalker said about the leaderboards being kept to public SB, I like that idea as well as it keeps the focus on the main game.

    Flawless Mode
    Mixed opinions on this one. It would allow those longer-term SB players to improve on their speed, but as Maev said it could have a few flaws due to certain builds (e.g ones with ender, lava, pressure plates) needing to be broken. Adding a dirt/scaffold block seems complicated as it would change the builds and could confuse players so I'm really 50/50 on this. If the builds that are slightly bugged could be changed or revamped for the whole game then I could see this working. It seems like a really nice idea and a lot of fun, but to me it feels like it would be hard to implement.

    This is an amazing idea and having the choice is really fun & creative. I really like how your ideas include both less experienced and more experienced players so everyone has a chance.

    Overall, I love the take and the unique ideas on here and I'd love to see them implemented. It would add some more fun and a new level to SB and potentially encourage more people to play the gamemode. Also, your videos are great and the fact you took the time to do that is really nice. +1 (:
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
    CookieBilly and whalker like this.
  12. I'm a fan of this idea. Especially as it would work as a single-player game, meaning there will be no issues with games starting due to a lack of players like what happened with UHC.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  13. I think this is a really great idea and while I don't have much to add, I could see this being very beneficial. As you mentioned, with Speed Builders being a very unique and popular game to Mineplex, this would allow the game to become more competitive and overall result in the game growing even more. I'd also love to be able to play a game like this as I view speed builders as a very memory-based game, and I think learning the builds can be hard (long-term). Big +1
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
    CookieBilly likes this.
  14. Hi Billy! I appreciate the effort you put into this, but as someone who does sweat the game I do not really see a need for an entire new game mode to practice when we can just use solo mps with a command to chose the build (this was discussed a lot in GI). I think the ideal way to have solo mps would be the "streak mode" you suggested, but instead of saying what streak you are on it just says the round number without the timer decreasing. I also have major critique on "flawless mode" as some people stated above, it's impossible ad some builds do require the player to place and break blocks to get a perfect. Thank you for posting this but I do unfortunately have to say

    -1
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
    Jaek and BINGUSLOVER27 like this.
  15. All game modes within MPS require another user, you can't start any game with 1 person anymore. Asking a friend is a cool idea, but doesn't give the potential flexibility that this proposed mode would give: for example, changing the queue easily, queueing various modes within it. People currently use another server entirely to practice: retaining those players on Mineplex is a good idea and really should happen: I don't see any benefit (apart from to a couple of tryhards) of adding this in an mps and heavily disagree with the GI proposal I was shown.

    It's also not practical for new players: a lot of new players don't know about the mps feature or won't have the same thought process as "create a new mps to practice", whereas someone like yourself who has a lot of experience on mineplex would have. I created this idea to aim for tryhards and new players: new players are essential to entertain, otherwise Mineplex will decrease in players: the idea of using a command to change the build really isn't practical either, showing a nice UI is much easier for new players to understand.

    GI is very biased towards older, more experienced players (reference: skywars update) and doesn't always have grounded thoughts for both groups of players. I strongly disagree with their current proposal.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 12, 2021,
    Last edited Apr 12, 2021
  16. This is not true, I tested what you said just now and I was able to play Dragon Escape solo. So it would make sense that SB could be made solo.


    A lot of players who come to Minecraft specifically to play Speed Builders always end up on a different Speed Builders server which by far is extremely difficult to use if you do not know what you are doing, but people still figure it out in a short amount of time. With this example I do not think it will be an issue. I also want to add that a lot of the people who play SB on Mineplex will first go to the normal game rather than practice mode, so a good way to give them the incentive to use practice mode is to add a text talking about practice mode in MPS to the pregame game tips so they can easily find where they are going.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  17. Which requires:
    • Legend Rank (which lets be real, new players aren't going to instantly buy) (I strongly think that locking "practicing" behind a paywall is an awful idea for the long-term stability of the game and wont lead to new people purchasing a rank.)
    • Knowledge of /game and how to use it
    • The knowledge that the speed builders command to select map... exists
    • The will to create an mps, rather than just queueing a different mode in the NPC.
    It makes 0 sense to make the GI proposed suggestion a thing, it makes things painful & only helps a small number of players: even with tips enabled.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 12, 2021
  18. Ok lets say we do use a NPC, some problems will end up being caused with players from both Dragon Escape and Nano Games (Hardcore Parkour), because for them to practice their games, it is locked behind a paywall, which I agree with you, is awful. So the way I see it is to have all those games have their own practice NPC (or even share one that could just be a general practice mode for all games), or we just have all them be in MPS.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021
  19. It'd share the normal speed builders NPC. This suggestion refers to this one specific game, I'm not against adding practice mode for those games if I can think of an interesting way to do it. But I don't feel like "slight backlash from other communities" is a valid reason to lock a new feature behind a paywall and make things harder for new players or just... not do it: Speed builders is a content machine and bring in a lot of new players and has a lot of creator potential, especially compared to the other mentions, it should have a bigger update first.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 12, 2021
  20. If we do go the NPC route, I think adding other games to "Practice Mode" will work wonderfully as a side thing when Speed Builders gets the royal treatment.
     
    Posted Apr 12, 2021

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