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The problem with wolf

Discussion in 'Super Smash Mobs' started by DaGourmand, Apr 8, 2019.

?

Do you think wolf is OP

  1. Yes

    79.4%
  2. No

    20.6%
  1. Wolf is hands down the most broken kit in the game.

    I have seen some SSM players try to defend wolf lately either claiming that wolf is weaker than some other kits like spider and zombie and claim that if wolf gives you a problem, you just don't know how to counter it.

    This is completely false.

    While wolf does not have the best attack or armor in the game, I believe both are 5, it has so many things going for it.

    1. Speed. The direct jump along with the re-addition of triple jump makes the wolf tied for the fastest kit in the game along with spider. Previously spider was faster as when they first removed triple jump in 2015, spider still had triple jump. Now, wolf is as fast as spider along with a wolf strike ability that travels farther and faster than spin web. This makes wolf the fastest kit in the game although spider does have a wall climb ability that can make it more agile.

    2. Hitbox size. The Wolf has a small and EXTREMLY narrow hithox. While spider might be as fast as wolf, at least you can actually hit the thing. While there are other kits such as slime, magma, and chicken which also have small hitboxes, wolf has BOTH extreme speed and a small hitbox.

    3. Cub tackle. Not only is the wolf already hard to hit and can catch up with you in 1 second as it is, it also has a cub tackle ability to slow you down even more and make it even harder to hit. If you can stuck in a cub tackle you can basically kiss a stock goodbye as the wolf can kill you before the cub tackle ends.

    4. Ravage. While wolf's initially damage is only 5(I might be wrong on that), ravage allows the wolf to get up to I believe 7-9 damage for hit if it gets you in a combo. It is very easy for wolf to land combos as it is small and fast so this just makes the combos even more deadly. If you get in a cub tackle the wolf will get ravage as well so it can finish you off in a second.

    The only way to counter wolf is to not make any mistakes. It is impossible to run from a wolf so you have to be able to kill it when it engages with you unless there is someone else in the game that is distracts it. If it gets a combo, you are done. You have to have near perfect aim to beat a decent wolf. Some people claim wolf struggles against range but as wolf can close a gap within a second and trap a skelly or zombie I highly doubt this. When I play as zombie against wolf I have to hit every single shot against a fast moving target or else I'm dead. Snowman can sometimes counter cub tackles with blizzard, and lightning shield on creeper prevents cub tackle combos but there isn't much else that can do anything against wolf.

    Now a generic 50 win wolf in a public game can be beaten(although they still might be annoying to deal with), if any half decent player is using wolf you might as well leave or just hide the whole game until it's only you and the wolf left.

    Spider might be pretty close to wolf but it seems to be that wolf is more op.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    SudL, MythicalCake, CCozy and 2 others like this.
  2. wolf is definitely not better than spider. theres multiple reasons the official tier list (the one that is stickied to the super smash mobs section) has spider as best kit. 1. wolf doesnt have the combo potential of spider. wolf has to get combos from its melee (im not considering cub + spam melee as a combo because the cub is inconsistent, and it makes the person who is caught take no kb), while spider has a ranged tool that does solid damage to get combos. spider clearly has the advantage in combos. in the spider v wolf matchup, I think spider wins just because of needler. if we ignore how hard webs is to aim, webs is definitely better than cub. it does more damage, and does its job better and more consistently than cub. you can also hit the cub away to jump out of it. im not saying wolf isnt threatening, im not saying its not op, im saying its not spider op, its a bit less.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    CCozy likes this.
  3. You are right to think wolf is stupidly op in most scenarios. It is one of the most effective kits that require the least amount of work.
    I will not defend wolf by saying it's "easy" or anything but i will say that it is not the best kit. It is agreed upon by most of the competitive players that spider is by far the best kit in the game. Spider has a lot of the same tools as wolf. The difference is spider is more complicated, but also gets more reward.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    Johnny Welamton, Padba, CCozy and 3 others like this.
  4. I can see the point in that at the highest level of gameplay a spider might have more potential but in terms of the vast majority of games, wolf is the kit that needs to be nerfed more. Wolf is more powerful than spider among 99 percent of players, there is only 1 percent of players(or even less) that can use spider more effectively than wolf. A random 300 win generic wolf main is going to be more annoying than a generic 300 win spider main. Wolf requires FAR less skill to be good at than spider. I only come across a top tier spider player every once in awhile so it isn't too much of an issue but I face these wolves maybe one out of every 3 or 4 games. At the top tier level a spider does have a powerful needler combo and a more versatile spin web and wall climb but as spider has a bigger hitbox you have to have far better aim, better movement; spacing, and skill with its abilities to succeed with spider than what is required for wolf. I am a snowman main and hardly use either spider or wolf but I don't have much difficulty using wolf effectively while with spider I run into issues as I am not very experienced with the kit.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 8, 2019
  5. The answer to this is to nerf ravage and make changes to its abilities. Yes, it is OP. Yes, Spider is also OP. Yes, a good wolf player will likely easily learn spider. Yes, it has a small hitbox. In the end, this is up to GI, who are already addressing the problem. It has very good damage and very high mobility, but I personally think that its jumps should stay as is, replaced with changed armor and attack stats.

    We're all aware of this issue, but it will take time to fix. In the meantime, the best we can do as normal players is try to counter it. Spider does well against wolves, cow does well against wolves, guardian does well against wolves, wolves go well against wolves etc... Check out the smash teir list or the matchups @Cabob posted at the top of the SSM section of the forums. They're very useful and were made with lots of love from him.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    Cabob likes this.
  6. GI and mineplex have been so slow for so long. Wolf has been OP for 3 YEARS and in the last update it got BUFFED. Spider has been OP since the needler poison fix back who knows like 2-3 YEARS ago, Mineplex needs to get themselves together, make a few nerfs, and DONT BUFF anymore kits as buffing always leads to something broken. How hard could it be to make a few quick nerfs.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 8, 2019
    Padba and CCozy like this.
  7. GI for the most part has everything already planned. We just need dev time. Also, I’m not associated with the wolf buffs.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019,
    Last edited Apr 8, 2019
  8. Mmh, as far as I see, it Wolf is a less-risk less-reward version of Spider. You have a smaller hitbox, easier-to-land "screw you" immobilizing ability, but at the same time, lack the amazing tool of Needler and the insane mobility and unkillability that Wall Climb grants.

    All in all, Wolf's very strong and should be nerfed, but it's not the most overpowered kit in the game.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    CCozy and neropatti like this.
  9. I'm only going to address the "wolf is better than spider" argument. I do agree wolf needs a nerf and is way too effective for how easy it is to use, but spider is the better kit hands down.

    Needler. Needler is an amazing combo tool that combines really well with spider's direct double jump, that also deals TRUE damage. It also has an extremely low cooldown.

    Spin web. Spin web is a trapping move with a huge spread. It might be a bit hard to hit someone with it, but it's also much harder to dodge it. It has RNG which can screw the spider over, but it also makes it impossible to predict where all the webs will go and so can be also impossible to avoid sometimes, if you didn't predict the spider is going to use it and jump out of the way in time. You also can't deflect it with another projectile like with cub tackle. It also deals more damage than cub tackle.

    Wall climb. Thanks to wall climb, spider has by far the best recovery in the game, nothing even comes close. Using wall climb spider can recover from falling off the edge in situations where any other kit won't be able to. It also improves spider's already insane mobility, and can be used to completely cancel any form of KB if needed.
    Lastly, if running away and spamming needler wasn't enough, it can also use it to stall out games if it needs to regen, and there's basically nothing the opponent can do most of the time, unless they're also a spider (though even then it can be risky to approach).

    Because of those three abilities, I think it makes spider undoubtedly the superior kit.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019,
    Last edited Apr 8, 2019
  10. To me, I feel like is fine, except ravage. Ravage should not be able to stack that many times. Many only 2 or so? The abilities are fine, since if they nerf ravage club tackle should be fine, and people don't really use wolf strike to fight.

    Spider should be nerfed. I find myself always dying to spiders weebs and always getting combo since the jump. The cooldowns of both abilities should be raised. Really the only thing I feel like the only thing wrong with spider is its abilities.

    But that's just my opinion. :)
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  11. Spider is an extremely powerful kit as well but it is only op at a very high level of player while wolf can be very op even in the hands of an intermediate player. Spider might have a higher potential but few players are good enough to reach that potential. I might come across a top tier spider one out of 30 games while an annoying intermediate wolf might pop up every 3-5 games. I think it is more frustrating to lose to a player worse than you using an OP kit than a highly skilled player using an OP kit.

    Also, needler can be dodged quite easily from mid to long range so I don't find a camping spider anymore annoying than a camping wolf as both kits can run away forever on large maps. I don't have too much trouble hitting spin webs but I find that players glitch out of them frequently and it takes more time to reach someone when you hit a spin web as you usually have to move backwards to use it and then come in while a wolf uses cub tackle front facing so it can use the cub tackle as it is coming towards a player. Wolf also can do more damage with a cub tackle+ wolf strike+ ravage combo than a spider using spin web and coming in for the combo. I tend to survive spiders spin webs more often than a cub tackle from a wolf. It is true that spider has the better recovery.
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Apr 8, 2019
  12. You must be mistaken because Wolf Strike is a free 7 damage ability.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
    cernsie likes this.
  13. i love that
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  14. To be honest, this game needs to be worked on. A lot of the kits are unbalanced (Wolf, Cow, Spider) and there aren't even lores that tell you how good exactly each kit is.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  15. update ssm more frequently plz
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  16. cow is definitely op yes yes i agree more i agree so much that im willing to buy you a house and then allow you to hog my money
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  17. Cow is a decent, tanky kit, but it gets absolutely ruined by wolf and spider because of their combo potential. I personally struggle to fight them just because i can't keep up with their mobility and fast striking moves. Cow is good, yes i agree, but i don't think it requires a nerf.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  18. Oh, I really don't see many people use it to fight. I see them mostly using to get it away and to get back on the map, but that's my bad!
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  19. One of the things we really need to do to fix wolf is to at least move the hitbox forward a little bit, right now if a wolf starts to combo you, there's nothing you can really do to retaliate since you cannot hit the wolf but the wolf can hit you.
     
    Posted Apr 8, 2019
  20. I mean, that’s what a combo is; any kit can do that, just some easier than others.
     
    Posted Apr 9, 2019

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