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Implemented Turf Wars Bedrock - solving the hiding issue

Discussion in 'Bedrock Ideas' started by MysticMaster779, Sep 21, 2020.

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  1. Hello there :)

    After seeing couple games recently, I loved seeing some big issues got fixed. But I strongly wanted to write this suggestion to the server. In my opinion, Turf Wars is a really cool idea, but it faces 3 big issues : players hiding, out not moving, and spawn killing. And I fear it makes players more turn their head rather than wanting to keep playing this minigames, not because of tastes whatsover (part of it yeah it's natural), but because waiting for nothing and wasting time is a pain in the neck, moreover when they are other minigames with clear action, and spawn killing don't let time to catch up and appreciate fully the game.

    Here are the main issues I face in this minigame :
    - when the players are hiding in the spawn area behind walls and columns, and never move. Players before didn't say anything, because of the going-through-the-field exploit, but since it got improved, there is no way to reach them now (it was not normal to do it by exploits, but now it's more visible for more players).
    - when players are "out-of-computer", staying in the air, and they are in spawn. I noticed there is now something to kick players that stay still ("Hoora !"), but weirdly they don't kick players that are in the state disconnected abruptely ("Hooroof xP").
    - when players just spawn, and they don't have time to react and get shot instantly (spawn killing). It can be due to lag, or just the time to react naturally.

    What would be the solutions ?
    - for hiding players, make them be forced to get out of the spawn area after a certain amount of time. I thought about hunger bar, but it would not turn well, imagine the player trying for the first time to hit and don't succeed, he/she would be punished hardly for that.
    - for players "out-of-computer", I think it's about upgrading the kick system for them.
    - and to avoid the spawn killing, let players have the time to move and get a chance to protect themselves, like any other video game, where there is a little invicibility time to let player the time to catch up.


    Here are some thoughts and ideas, I let you think about them ^-^
     
    Posted Sep 21, 2020
  2. I can definitely see where you’re coming from in terms of these issues. I would like to see them fixed, because Turf Wars definitely has a lot of potential, and could draw a lot more players in if that potential is realized. Now, for feedback on your suggestions:

    Okay, while I agree that players hiding in their bases is an issue, it’s only really an issue towards the end of the game, when one team is immensely closer to the other team’s base. So it’s not a huge problem, and yes, a small amount of people do do it mid game, but it’s more so towards the end. Usually a good number of players are on the playing field, so a few of them hiding isn’t really a big deal, but a lot of people do usually hide more towards the end if they’re losing. I don’t really know how this could be prevented. A hunger bar probably wouldn’t work out at all. Maybe some form of erosion could take place in the base after a certain amount of time? I think this might be one way to do it, as it would force players to get out of their bases at the end of the game. It would be a nice change, and would definitely made a difference, but it’s not necessary.

    This floating issue was a big problem in the game Dragons. People were abusing it to gain a large amount of XP, and it went on for a while. I’m pretty sure it was fixed for Dragons though. If they fixed it for Dragons, then it should definitely be fixed for all games too. Floating is a big problem in almost every game mode. It would be nice to see it resolved in Turf Wars as well, so I definitely agree here.

    I agree that spawn killing is definitely an issue in a lot of game modes. Cake Wars does have an invincibility system, and I would love to see this implemented for Turf Wars. There should at least be 5 seconds of invincibility after a player dies to ensure that spawn killing does not occur.

    Overall, these are definitely some nice ideas, and I could see them working out with some modifications!
     
    Posted Sep 21, 2020
    Fallen and MysticMaster779 like this.
  3. This is still a big issue, because players hiding cannot be hit ^^' Players don't say too much, because either leave, or hitting "out-of-computer" players, or spawn killing.


    Also, sometimes they build a massive giant wool wall in front of each entry of the spawn, it's tedious and boring. Because when you shoot at the wall, they replace the missing blocks more quickly than players can shoot arrows. I feel the arrow restacking should be coming a bit more quickly.

    I forgot to tell about the aiming range of the arrows, I feel like the slightest move of the character makes the arrow goes anywhere but where you shoot at, it's pretty imprecise. In the air, it's even worse, it flies all over the place xP Maybe it comes from the game itself :( I prefered the Java version, shooting arrows in the air was awesome ! If something could be done to rectify the precision in this minigame, that would be awesome.

    And I also forgot to mention the map where it's a canyon, and the spawn have those stairs where players can hide behind and shoot others, it's so much a pain to hit them because the holes are so small, but them have a large vision to hit others *-*


    But it's good to see even more the possibilities, thanks to what's happening in other games like you said ^-^
     
    OP OP
    OP OP Posted Sep 21, 2020
    LT Tombstone 77 likes this.
  4. Hola!

    I don't know how to do the quoting thing- so I'm going to improvise, sorry

    I have brought up these issues before, I am a turf main and would greatly like to see these issues fixed.

    @LT Tombstone 77 said: "Usually a good number of players are on the playing field, so a few of them hiding isn’t really a big deal, but a lot of people do usually hide more towards the end if they’re losing. I don’t really know how this could be prevented."

    I disagree with the fact that there are usually a good amount of players on the field. Maybe you encounter more when you play, but as a main I don't run into a lot of players these days and spend a lot of time in the waiting lobby waiting for players- and most of my games end up with the max of 6/7 players at best. This makes the camping a huge issue, especially if I play with friends who are good or ranked, as we seem to make unranked or new players intimidated into hiding, or just plain leaving mid-game. Which in turn also makes the campers a problem, since you can't hit them unless you are an infiltrator- and let's be honest... that kit is not very good, and you have to hope that if the sleeper has active teammates they don't shoot you before you can get 4 hits on the sleeper.

    And SOME people just camp in the base where you can't hit them at all, and don't even try after a certain point, hoping for a draw.

    I brought up a solution with some friends and in turn got a few ideas to solve the camping problem.

    @MysticMaster779 said: "- for hiding players, make them be forced to get out of the spawn area after a certain amount of time. I thought about hunger bar, but it would not turn well, imagine the player trying for the first time to hit and don't succeed, he/she would be punished hardly for that."
    I came up with the solution of kicking players from the base a while back with some friends. This would solve multiple problems at once: the campers and the sleepers (AFK, floaters, The off-computer people). I thought maybe if a system was implemented that you start taking damage after a certain amount of time in the base. The system works like this:
    After 30 seconds or so (Combat time for turf wars is 90 seconds, so it's reasonable.) If you run out of health while in the base, you die, but that death contributes to the turf score. If you start taking damage, you stop taking damage once you step onto the turf. The time would also reset every time you died. This way, if you had a sleeper- they would die (This is helpful because you can't reach them half the time and while eventually the do get kicked, it takes a while and can make the game super slow, depending on the number of players.)
    And issue that arose with this idea was "Okay, but what if the sleeper was on your team? You are still trying to play, but with the sleeper dying and costing you turf it makes the game harder for you." This is true. An updating/improved kicking system would help with this, but that's also why the spawn-death timer resets after the death. You have 30 seconds in between the time that they die to kill opponents and regain turf.

    Another idea that was brought up by @gyroninja is that after a certain amount of time of the turf score not moving (neither team getting kills), a neutral territory forms and starts growing. Both teams can walk on this turf and if one side runs out of their own turf, they lose. Once the turf score moves, the neutral territory stops growing and kills retake that neutral turf and the game can move on.


    Now for the spawn killing thing:
    While this is actually allowed, as stated in another thread (I can't remember which one, so if someone could link it or something that would be great)
    I agree that it can be annoying and discouraging for newer players, or just anyone in general.
    @MysticMaster779 said: "- and to avoid the spawn killing, let players have the time to move and get a chance to protect themselves, like any other video game, where there is a little invincibility time to let player the time to catch up."

    In cake wars, there is a small invincibility phase when you first spawn, which runs out after you break it or after a certain amount of time (I don't know the specifics of it.) If something like that were implemented into turf, it would solve the immediate spawn killing. The invincibility could be broken the moment you draw back your bow, or when you step onto the turf- or after a few seconds.

    I went back up to re-read @LT Tombstone 77 and he already stated this- oops
     
    Posted Sep 21, 2020
  5. i have about 1k wins and i would have 2k+ if people wouldnt hide or if the game stops glicthing players
    i would love to seethis changed, it would probably keep me playing this more
     
    Posted Sep 21, 2020
  6. It would also probably encourage more people to play, I feel like a lot of newer players are discouraged from playing because of this. Since Turf doesn't get a lot of attention as it is and isn't well known, improving it could have great outcomes. Turf has a lot of potential, but it often gets overlooked.
     
    Posted Sep 29, 2020
    Sunkeiss and Mothy was here like this.
  7. It would be extremely helpful for not only the players who play Turf Wars frequently, but for the newer players who play Turf Wars if some changes were being made about players who afk or hide in the base for the entirety of the game. There are actual players who purposely stay until the very end- hiding in their bases in order to tie with the winning team. Another thing that could possibly be implemented is that the team with the most turf should win the game instead of the game ending in a draw at the end? I feel like that would encourage the hiders to either actually quit instead of wasting time, or come out and try to win.
     
    Posted Sep 29, 2020
  8. Hola!

    I agree that these issues in turf wars were very annoying to deal with, but thankfully, now we won’t have to deal with them. Hiding out in spawn was a main issue I saw when playing turf wars, as you’re unable to progress any further if your opponents are out of reach and I’m concealment. With the recent bedrock update (you can learn more about that here) an anti-camping system was implemented. The way the system works is that if one team does not launch any arrows for a certain period of time and the other team does, the team that is not firing any arrows will lose turf. As for players being afk/glitched the AFK timer for all games was revamped from 4 minutes to 1, so that issue should be solved, though this shouldn’t really be an issue with the new anti-camping system. Now I never had much of an issue with spawn killing in turf wars, but I can agree that’s frustrating to deal with and even though it can be used as a strategy it’s an unfair advantage to have. Following the classics update, you will now have spawn protection for 4 seconds upon respawn. Thanks for suggesting these ideas! Since your ideas have been implemented to the server, I’ll be marking this thread as implemented.

    Thread Locked -> Idea Implemented
     
    Posted Oct 14, 2020
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