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Why is Castle Defense eliminated again?

Discussion in 'Bedrock Ideas' started by Ramzoft, Nov 26, 2021.

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  1. Because like last year they eliminated the Castle Defense game mode?

    Why not leave it longer?

    Since according to my perspective there were always many players connected.

    Castle Defense is super fun as a holding I think they should leave it forever.
    Posted Nov 26, 2021
    Pixusman likes this.
  2. Castle Defence is a Halloween game, and always will be. Doesn't make sense to make it a permanent game, even if it accumulated over 1,000 players. If we made it a permanent game then what would we do for Halloween? It has to have an LTM game of it's own, so Castle Defence being permanent is simply a bad idea
    Posted Nov 27, 2021
    LostShrimp13 likes this.
  3. Cries in Castle Siege.

    I agree with this, if it's fun and players like it they might as well just leave it.
    Posted Nov 27, 2021
    LostShrimp13 likes this.
  4. Hello, when both Castle Defense and Cake Wars Solos were announced on Discord (October 29th), this was the statement:

    - Added Cake Wars Solos (this is not a temporary addition like the following game)
    - Added back Castle Defense
    Now I do admit that's a tad bit hard to understand. What gyro was trying to say here is that Cake Wars solos was not a temporary addition, it was instead a long term more permanent addition. However, he said "like the following game", implying that the following game (which was Castle Defense) would indeed be a temporary addition for the season.

    I understand your comments about the player count, but decisions about gamemodes like this are usually made by higher up leadership for a reason. It might be that they predict the game would lose popularity quickly if is it made available for longer.
    Posted Nov 28, 2021
    LostShrimp13 likes this.
  5. I mean I'm not super well versed in Bedrock game popularity, but the same argument is used (poorly) on the java server and I really don't agree with it. The game might be predicted to lose players in the future, but one: it might not, in which case removing it would remove a major source of players, or two: even if it does, the fact that it held 1000 players at any point means that the popularity would likely still be large even once it loses some, and even if it does die completely it can just be removed then, not before.
    Posted Nov 28, 2021
  6. Castle Defense was only ever intended to be an event game, much like what Castle SIEGE on Java has become ever since its (mostly) permanent removal in 2018.

    However, going by the numbers, I don't see why they'd eliminate it and keep Solo, unless they really, really like sticking to their guns even if it turns out that might not be the best option in the end. I barely follow Bedrock at all, but I think CW Solo is only on Java. That being said, it had zero players since day one, totally dead on arrival, only rarely having enough to start a single game. I don't know how well CD is doing, but if it had 1k players at any point in the past month, it was way, way better off than what we got, and got to keep on Java.
    And yet the far more popular game is the one that's removed... Seems a little counterintuitive, not gonna lie. But then again, the best option would have just been to keep both. They had nothing to gain by removing either, and the potential for major losses (in players) by removing Castle Defense. I doubt anyone would be bothered by CW Solo going bye-bye, but it's always the safer option just to leave it be.

    Another important thing to remember is that yes, the Devs do make mistakes. Not every decision they make is the best one, and not everyone is worth defending or trying to justify. You can try, but you'll often find there really isn't a good reason. In fact, one of their undeniably worst moves was removing several games that still had a decent following, we all saw the consequences of that, and yet they did it again... I respect them and their work, and am grateful for all they do for the server, but always remember that not every move they make is the right one. Timmi had no way of knowing CW Solo would turn out like this, he probably had every reason to believe it would be a huge success and would revive CW on Java considering how many people asked for it for so long, but the ever-fickle fanbase wasn't on board anymore by the time it finally dropped. They really have no way of knowing if something is going to "work" or not until it happens and they observe it for some time, but in many cases, past is precedent. Removing games just isn't smart (unless you have literally nothing to lose or NO ONE to lose by doing so).
    Posted Nov 28, 2021
  7. CW Solo was on Bedrock like last year as a temporary game, and is most definitely an option on the overall server, hence why it was announced to be a permanent game by gyro in the announcement I quoted.

    Some devs get to make their own decisions, but any of their decisions are going to need approval from the lead dev as well as leadership/ownership team. And many game changing decisions such as game removal are made by that higher up ownership level, not the developers.

    Not sure why we're talking about CW solo anyway, the thread is about Castle Defense. The game was announced to be a temporary gamemode, so everyone was already prepared to expect its removal. Java has temporary games too, which is beneficial in the long run because they maintain their novelty as they're only available for a small part of the year.
    Posted Nov 29, 2021
  8. Yes, temporary games are nice, I even made a case for having more of them in my last Trainee application suggestions. But still, if it's not tied to a seasonal event, and there's the demand to make it permanent, then why not? Java could really use some new permanent stuff. And here's the biggest thing of all-do they have any way of telling if something is going to "work" or not before it happens? Like with a beta server, or surveys, or forum analysis (suggestions), or even focus testing?
    Posted Nov 29, 2021
  9. We don't have a lot of dev power for Bedrock, if we keep Castle Defense as a permanent game then we will lose an LTM that we need. Besides, people enjoy coming back regularly for the game and it would lose that spark if it stayed permanently (similar to Castle Siege anyways). Plus, adding more content should not be a priority for Bedrock right now. There are too many bugs to count, especially game-breaking ones. Gyro is planning on updating the majority of the games and systems (Cake Wars which he did already) and after that we can maybe talk about adding in fresh content like a permanent new game.

    I'm not sure what you mean by your last point - focus testing? We already have ways to gather player feedback, it's why Community Management, Game Insights, and Community Council exist. After every update we tend to have post patches as per general feedback, and polls are posted sometimes too, although not as often (which we could do more). Furthermore, for almost every big update we take into account what the community would like.
    Posted Nov 29, 2021
  10. Just keep it and if it dies, get rid of it its only one button press away lol. If it does not die, all the better. The argument of "its a holiday game what else would we do????????????" How about the minecraft MINIGAME server make a new game? Just a thought. Who knows, a NEW GAME might bring even MORE players on top of the people who play the castle game that was NOT removed. Might even keep mineplex afloat a few more years.

    Just a thought
    Posted Nov 29, 2021
    BlazeFire likes this.
  11. I’m just gonna restate what @maevestarbaby said right before.

    1. adding Castle Defense as an LTM would just make it lose its spark. Players wouldn’t be looking forward to playing it anymore. My guess is it would probably be popular for like 2 weeks then quickly die.

    2. There are already lots of bugs on the Bedrock server in most of the games so adding Castle Defense would just be new bugs and more fixing to do.

    3. Your point about making a new mini game just kinda goes back to my 2nd thing. Making and adding a new mini game onto the Bedrock server would just cause more bugs.

    4. I’m not sure about this but I’m guessing that removing and adding a game is much more complicated then just pressing a button.

    5. Finally, from my experience on the GI server, I haven’t rlly seen anybody asking for Castle Defense to be permanent (though I could be wrong), I am not sure about the other player feedback groups. Note: This was more of a response to @BlazeFire

    Even if I do love Castle Defense, I don’t think that making it permanent would be a good idea. Now this is just my opinion though xd

    have a great day/night,
    Posted Nov 30, 2021
    Mothy and maevestarbaby like this.
  12. I really don't know CD or Bedrock, but it seems like the Bedrock server just needs polish, while the Java server needs something drastic. That's what I was saying needed a new game.

    Bedrock doesn't need anything major to stay afloat right now, it's always been stable-Java is just the opposite. It's hanging on by less than a thread, and it needs something big right out of the gate in 2022 to keep the Christmas gains alive so it doesn't end up like last year. It can't afford another 2021. This year started out with 2k players max and now we're down to an absolute max of 400-500, a 75% loss. If that happened again in 2022, Mineplex would barely be cracking triple digits even on Friday and Saturday nights. Timing and planning are everything. You can't go too long between one big update and another, not long at all. People getting bored of stuff FAST is a fact of life. I'm a Pokemon fan, Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl just came out, and in a couple of weeks, any remaining hype will be dead. Luckily, Legends Arceus is right around the corner, followed by the (presumed) Gen 9 reveal. Mineplex has Christmas Chaos, an Advent Calendar, a Present Hunt, and MAYBE Castle Siege this December, and then that may very well be all we get until October.

    As for guaranteeing the success of new releases, taking community input is good, but giving it a trial run would be even better. By focus testing, I mean seeing if a handful of random, not handpicked, RANDOM players, a mix of high and low levels, enjoy a new game/mode/update and would want to see it on the server. I'm assuming that would give a more accurate sample of what both new and long-time players want from the server, and therefore what will fly with and be appreciated by everyone so Timmi doesn't end up essentially wasting his time like he did with Solo. He's free to do whatever he wants, but I don't see why he'd want to put his time and effort into things that are unlikely to make a difference or draw a crowd (or anyone for that matter...). Sure, people SAID they wanted Solo, but in the end, they didn't care. Maybe they could've known that in advance.

    Finally, with keeping event games around, they kept HH around until December first. DECEMBER FIRST-a specifically Halloween game. And yes, it ran its course. I just saw it hit zero players for the first time tonight. It wasn't a bad move, they gave people a chance to fully enjoy it even after the season ended. Also, I wouldn't count on CC coming out until a couple of weeks into December. If they did it today, I guarantee people would be bored of it by Christmas, which isn't what you're aiming for. But for Castle Defense and Castle Siege, they aren't tied to any one time of year, so they could be around forever (and Castle Siege was for four years), or until they really do hit that decline. THEN remove them and bring them back a year later. Castle Siege wasn't in nearly as bad of shape as any of the current Java games any of the times it was removed, and I'm assuming the same is true for Castle Defense. If CD must be an event game, and it doesn't have to be, at least let people get bored of it first to the point where it's just wasting server space.

    Sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent, and I believe I've said enough. I just felt the need to stress the importance of Mineplex playing their cards right, especially on Java.
    Posted Dec 1, 2021
  13. This is a Bedrock thread @BlazeFire so I'm not sure why you are bringing up Java's issues while also acknowledging you don't know much about Bedrock - this can all be brought up on a separate thread. I'll respond to your reply, though, as you elaborated a bit more

    As you say this, our Christmas update has been released today, 1st of December. You can read more about it here. Christmas Chaos is not yet here, though, that's coming later.

    This doesn't sound like it would be practical. During QA/T testings, we are all in a voice call and test everything - gameplay, bugs, features. We also bring forth new ideas from both a logical and creative perspective. Picking random players to test incomplete versions of new games or features would probably be a pretty big waste of time. While anyone can play a few games to see what it's like, not everyone has the skills or knowledge to test everything else that needs to be tested (which is super important). Furthermore, there are a lot of people out there that are not pleasant to be around, and they would probably make testings really destructive or, once again, a waste of time.

    Testers are carefully picked. It's not only that QA/T do the testings. If necessary, other players will be brought in - for example, during the CW update leaderboard players and GI players were asked to help test. Similarly, if we need a ton of people to test something, we'll simply reach out the entire staff team (moderation & builders & a few others) rather than handpicking random players from, where, Discord? The forums? It would not make much sense unfortunately. Quality is important so these sorts of testings will not happen.

    If people want to be involved with testings or the development of the server in general, then they need to start getting themselves involved in general. Trying to apply for QAT, staying active with GI, being around in the MPD to discuss stuff when it comes up, especially when Timmi's around. That being said, you can make a whole lot of difference even not being a tester - ideas count for a lot.

    It was not Timmi's decision in the first place to bring out Solos or not, and it was requested by the community a lot. The sole reason teams like GI, QAT, or CCO exist is to gather player feedback and bring it forward for development.

    For example, I remember when we were working on Havoc and I was in Discord a few times getting the major issues that players had and worked with the rest of the team combining those suggestions and others that the other team members brought and then helped bring them to life. While there were still issues with the game I'd say the update was really great because of this.

    I'm also not entirely sure how you want development/leadership to "know in advance" that the community wouldn't care? They are not mind readers. And Timmi and the rest of us did enjoy working on the update, at least I know he isn't upset over it. He works really hard, I wouldn't call the CW update a waste of his or anyone else's time at all. He could have given us nothing, or very minimal work, but continually he goes out of his way to help improve the server and do a lot more than he's asked.
    Posted Dec 1, 2021
  14. Thanks for setting me straight. I shouldn't go making assumptions on things I'm not well versed in. How do you think I could be more informed, or "in the loop"? People like Slash, Valenia, or Ariannna are always telling me things I SHOULD know that I don't.

    I'll admit, there's actually a hidden genius in pulling CS and CD from the server "early". It's essentially creating an artificial sense of NEEDING to play the game within a certain and very limited window, otherwise, you can't play it all. You're right, it's a tactical move, as it helps bring people onto the server just for that chance, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's the most (how should I say this...) forthright-move from the Devs, as I'm pretty sure I'm right too in saying that both could be around all year if they wanted them to be. But at least this way they'll never wear out. Still, these short-term gains are of little use if they aren't followed up by something of an equal or greater caliber. I sincerely hope, for the server's survival, that January is an eventful month on Java, and as not to forget our loyal players, for them too. In the meantime, enjoy December on both! There's no shortage of things to do.
    Posted Dec 1, 2021
  15. As a yearly game it sucks but It was fun like last year and can’t wait for next year

    i was gonna go for #1 but I didn’t have the will to grind
    I started playing at the end of the month but then quit it
    Posted Dec 3, 2021
  16. Then you can remove it untill the next october - whats the harm?
    WOW, what a suprise!
    How exactly? You add this game as an ltm at least once a year so you must have an easy way to re-add it - thats how i would program it. If you dont thats just dumb. How would adding it (you do once a year) and then NOT removing it (Less work to do) add MORE bugs? If there are bugs, they would also be present in the LTM mode.
    If a minigame server is too scared to make a minigame then they are not a minigame server. More bugs? Get used to it. Thats called putting effort into a game and fixing its issues. Welcome to the world of programming.
    I know it must be harder than just that - that was a really dumbed down way of putting it. But still, they do it every year. It cant be THAT hard to add something thats already coded and ready for the public.

    Sorry if this seemed rude, but its just the truth.
    Posted Dec 8, 2021
  17. Castle Defense was always planned to be an LTG (Limited Time Game) last year it was removed mid/late November just like this year. We have no plans on making it a permanent game and we have no control over when the game gets removed. I'm going to go ahead and have this idea locked.

    - Thread Locked - Castle Defence will remain as an LTG (Limited Time Game)
    - GuardianInASuit | Bedrock Moderator ​
    Posted Dec 8, 2021
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